4.13 development update discussion and feedback

[Jami]

Originally Posted by sniperton

Really? I think in RL "an average or better human pilot" should never get into a situation where he alone has to fight 4 (four) enemy fighters at the same time, no matter how unskilled they are. Not even Luke Skywalker would do that.

I agree that "should never...", but sometimes you can't help it. According to memoirs of WWII pilots they often faced situations where they had to fight against overwhelming enemies. Of course in the sim this depends on mission maker plans, correct/incorrect timing and how has the human pilot managed so far.

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by Jami

I agree that "should never...", but sometimes you can't help it. According to memoirs of WWII pilots they often faced situations where they had to fight against overwhelming enemies.

Yep, and some of them even survived... Anyway, your point was that an average pilot "should be able to beat" 4 AI fighters in a 1 to 4 engagement. My point is that it wouldn't be realistic.

[Jami]

Originally Posted by sniperton

Yep, and some of them even survived... Anyway, your point was that an average pilot "should be able to beat" 4 AI fighters in a 1 to 4 engagement. My point is that it wouldn't be realistic.

Ok, this is not worth arguing. Let's be happy with our own opinions...

[major.kudo]

I have a request about fighters AI.

I think AI fighters gun shooting is too exact. I think that is not "average" pilot.
Now, AI fighters are hit by other AIs shoot Before maneuver.
Usually AIs maneuver is too late. And attacking AIs shots are too exact.
Therefore, If 16*P-51Ds VS 16*Bf-109s fight, only 5 to 6 planes survive slightly.
Other 25 planes are crash.
I think this is not "average" air combat.
I have some books about air combat. But such a battle is not indicated.

So, I request more poor gun shooting fighters AI.

I am Japanese. Sorry my poor English.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by major.kudo

I think AI fighters gun shooting is too exact. I think that is not "average" pilot.

Before 4.13, Ace pilots had near perfect gunnery skills. With the 4.13 patch I'm seeing AI at all levels shoot longer bursts without correcting their aim - even at Ace level. Human players can observe whether their gunfire hits and correct their aim or stop shooting if it's obvious that they can't hit a target (e.g., too far away, not enough lead on the target).

I'm also seeing AI shots that miss pass to either side of a target, but not above or below it, which means that AI might still be correcting for the ballistics of their weapons to an unrealistic degree.

But, when AI hits, there doesn't seem to be as much dispersion of gunfire as there might be and they don't tend to make improper corrections for deflection shots that result in subsequent shots missing.

Originally Posted by major.kudo

Therefore, If 16*P-51Ds VS 16*Bf-109s fight, only 5 to 6 planes survive slightly. Other 25 planes are crash. I think this is not "average" air combat.

I agree. This makes for better game play, but situations where one or both sides suffered massive losses in a dogfight were, historically, very rare. And, of course, historically you never had 32 Ace pilots fighting each other.

Originally Posted by major.kudo

So, I request more poor gun shooting fighters AI.

I'm not sure it's the gunnery model thats at fault, but the level of aggression.

Rookie or Average pilots should be quite reluctant to attack large formations of enemy planes unless they have a clear advantage (i.e., from above and to the rear of the target). They should shoot from too far away and break off the attack too soon.

Also, AI at any level is much better at maintaining "situational awareness" of multiple aircraft than humans are.

Realistically, any Veteran or better pilot should try to exit the "furball " (mass turning dogfight) to gain better Situational Awareness, then choose a single target and follow it using B&Z or turn fighting tactics.

This matches the historical tactics of just about every high scoring ace - avoid the furball, orbit above it and pick off enemies who have lost SA from above and behind

At any level of AI, each plane in a dogfight after the first should create an increased chance that AI loses SA with respect to one or more planes. Losing SA with respect to a nearby enemy plane (say within 1 km) should make a Veteran or Ace pilot react defensively, including breaking off an attack unless by continuing the attack would also be a defensive maneuver (i.e., gaining separation from the "lost" enemy plane's last known position).

Originally Posted by major.kudo

I am Japanese. Sorry my poor English.

I'm American. I don't speak a word of Japanese. There's no need to apologize for having the courage to use a foreign language.