New P-40 FM

[JtD]

El, as you know I spent a lot of effort in research for the updated P-40 FM - regarding the turn rate, there's no way that physics allow any of the modelled P-40's to sustain a turn as well as say a contemporary Hurricane or a Spitfire did. It's just a ton too heavy for it, or it lacks 500 hp. What it has is plenty of fuel and good control characteristics, so with low fuel, with not ace quality pilots in both aircraft, it will be able to close the gap. It's also possible that in practice US pilots violated the boost limitations, closing the gap even further. Probably wrecked one or two engines as well, but the dead can't tell their stories, only the survivors will. As the early P-40's lacked ABC, the Allisons could produce 60"+ at sea level, instead of the 40some they were cleared for - and it is a documented fact that some units did. This would basically give them the extra hp they need, at a high risk of engine damage.

However, in game all aircraft come with ABC and the aircraft are not modelled to represent field mod abuse, but best documented performance on official specs. Guess it is like IceFire said - we'll have to wait for the N. It will have the M's power (which is pretty good already), at far less weight, and should be real fun to fight with.

[horseback]

The 325th got a lot more "ink" than the P-40 groups that preceded it into North Africa, partly because the leadership was as colorful as the group's markings, and partly because the 325th continued to score in the air-to-air arena while the other groups were concentrated on air to group tasks. However, it is clear that the USAAF operated Warhawks were flown more aggressively than Commonwealth Kittyhawks and that they were a surprise to the JGs in N. Africa which saw P-40 series aircraft in terms of bull's eyes.

JtD, math aside, the P-40 like the P-36/Hawk 75 before it had well balanced controls, a very good roll rate at most speeds and a superior dive acceleration that resulted in an excellent zoom climb; an experienced P-40 driver could humiliate the average Spitfire or Hurricane (not to mention Mustang) pilot fairly easily if he knew what he was doing.

cheers

horseback

[ElAurens]

Alpha, that is the one major engagement that was quite successful for the 325th, to be sure, but their overall record with the P40 vs. the 109 was indeed better than their Commwealth counterparts. They simply had more seat time in the aircraft. The 325th. were also the first unit to use 1000lb. bombs on the P 40.

JtD, as you probably know from the often circulated Allison document, there were many units, both in the Pacific and North Africa running up to 72 inches of manifold in their modified P40s. They didn't all blow up doing this either. Of course those were desperate times early in the war when the Allies were searching for any advantage to survive.

The Allison V 1710 is a more robust engine than the Merlin, this is a fact. To this day you will find Merlins in unlimited class air racing using Allison connecting rods because they are stronger than the Rolls Royce units.

Looking forward to the N model.

[JtD]

Originally Posted by horseback

...an experienced P-40 driver could humiliate the average Spitfire or Hurricane (not to mention Mustang) pilot fairly easily if he knew what he was doing.

Same is true vice versa, because usually the experienced guy knowing what he's doing beats the average guy. At least, the P-40 is good enough to allow for that.

Originally Posted by ElAurens

... there were many units, both in the Pacific and North Africa running up to 72 inches of manifold in their modified P40s. They didn't all blow up doing this either.

No, of course, the increased boost did help them to significantly improve their chance of survival overall. I just meant to say it wasn't risk-free.

[The_WOZ]

It would be interesting to add some P-40 variant with higher manifold pressure, if there is enough data to support it. After all there's already the 25Lbs spits, the 1.65 ATA 190s and the Bf-109K4-C3 in the sim.

[ElAurens]

I wish we could find performance figures for the AVG's Hawk 81s.

Those of us who are true believers know that their engines were assembled off the regular production schedule, and made more power than
standard V1710s of their day.

The AVG suffered higher than normal prop reduction gear box failures because of this. It also acounts for thier ability to dominate the air space they flew in. (Beyond their superior tactical doctrine). The trouble is there are no documents with numbers on them.

Hence no way to translate that into a sim, or convince those who doubt this.

Over boosted later models used by Commonwealth forces are easy to do as the documentation exists.