Customizable belting pattern and visually modeled bullets?

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I don't think it's possible to model individual bullets in IL-2.

For that reason, it might be impossible for players to choose customized ammo loadouts.

OTOH, it doesn't seem like it would be that much trouble to add different "stock" MG loadouts for different missions.

Another MG option, which could be a GUI option rather than a loadout option, would be the option to change the color of tracers or have different colored tracers at the end of the MG's load (used by some units).

Something that could be an option, but is technically a loadout, would be to change the frequency of tracer rounds. Some units didn't use tracers at all, some used more than the standard number as substitutes for incendiaries.

Every bullet is currently modelled and has been since the beginning of IL-2... they are just not rendered visually so I suppose it's possible but I don't think it's practical. Bullets are basically invisible while moving anyways which is why tracers are used.

Every gun has a pre-programmed belting list. Some, like the .50cal, recently received changes to the belting. What would be great would be to (at the least) select from a list of historically accurate belting options. The groundwork is there but I imagine it's a bit more difficult than it may appear.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Every bullet is currently modelled and has been since the beginning of IL-2... they are just not rendered visually so I suppose it's possible but I don't think it's practical. Bullets are basically invisible while moving anyways which is why tracers are used.

Every gun has a pre-programmed belting list. Some, like the .50cal, recently received changes to the belting. What would be great would be to (at the least) select from a list of historically accurate belting options. The groundwork is there but I imagine it's a bit more difficult than it may appear.

It would be a really nice feature, I like it in CloD.

[Treetop64]

I agree. Visually modelling every single bullet fired requires far more resources than is reasonably practical, and is a pointless exercise since you're not going to be able to actually see a tracer-less bullet being fired. It's common sense to visually render the tracers only, while mathematically accounting the effects of all rounds fired.

[Blaf]

Even non-tracer bullets are still actually being fired from muzzle and travel trough space in same way as tracers do, they just can't be seen, same as IRL.

[panzer1b]

im all for it, id love the option to switch between tank killing belting and anti air belting (well not really but whatever they used vs planes)

the only way im for any loadout options is if it is strictly limited to realistically used belts or if no records exist to at least plausable belting that is based upon some guesswork

as much as options are welcome i really dont want to see unrealistic loadouts like in CloD where i will say the few times i have flewn i will never forget the nut who decided to put different colored tracers (only tracers) in his spitfire, imn pretty sure this was unrealistic

anyways if pilots were actually given any more then a few options for certain missions then i will welcome complete customization but i just dont want to see loadouts that make realism fall out the door

that said id welcome and use tracerless loadouts, ofc i dont have much if any knowledge of if such loadouts were ever used irl, but if they are id use em as tracers do one thing only, give away my position if i manage to completely miss a shot. still i have never heard of tracerless belting actually being used in ww2, so unless it was used in actual war i do not want to see it as an option unless some difficulty option allows forcing realistic loadouts only

otherwise i support this idea assuming it does not take so much effort as to take away from the new planes and effects that are in development, not exactly a priority but a welcome addition to the game

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by panzer1b

im all for it, id love the option to switch between tank killing belting and anti air belting (well not really but whatever they used vs planes)

the only way im for any loadout options is if it is strictly limited to realistically used belts or if no records exist to at least plausable belting that is based upon some guesswork

as much as options are welcome i really dont want to see unrealistic loadouts like in CloD where i will say the few times i have flewn i will never forget the nut who decided to put different colored tracers (only tracers) in his spitfire, imn pretty sure this was unrealistic

anyways if pilots were actually given any more then a few options for certain missions then i will welcome complete customization but i just dont want to see loadouts that make realism fall out the door

that said id welcome and use tracerless loadouts, ofc i dont have much if any knowledge of if such loadouts were ever used irl, but if they are id use em as tracers do one thing only, give away my position if i manage to completely miss a shot. still i have never heard of tracerless belting actually being used in ww2, so unless it was used in actual war i do not want to see it as an option unless some difficulty option allows forcing realistic loadouts only

otherwise i support this idea assuming it does not take so much effort as to take away from the new planes and effects that are in development, not exactly a priority but a welcome addition to the game

At least a few pilots in the USAAF in Europe, if not a whole squadron, used tracerless beltings from what I've read. I can't remember the group right now...

Historical beltings would be my preferred method for sure. Getting the beltings right would also likely mean fixing up some missing weapons and possibly a lot of research required to get it right. Not a bad thing persay...but not easy!

[panzer1b]

Originally Posted by IceFire

At least a few pilots in the USAAF in Europe, if not a whole squadron, used tracerless beltings from what I've read. I can't remember the group right now...

Historical beltings would be my preferred method for sure. Getting the beltings right would also likely mean fixing up some missing weapons and possibly a lot of research required to get it right. Not a bad thing persay...but not easy!

the only downside as you mentioned would be research

CloD sortof skipped this by giving one default "historic" belt and then just threw in a custom belting option

personally id put priority into adding optional tank killing loadouts to the planes which had at least some anti tank combat. many have them as defaults but most if not all fighterbombers do not have any anti-tank options. althoufgh its a mod the hurricane type D with the 40mm Ap or 40mm HE loadout would be preferred but for every plane that has a dedicated anti tank role

again i do fly the fw190 almost exclusively so thats why im complaining as the 151s just do not have enough AP rounds, and i am pretty sure those planes did have dedicated AT loadouts in belting, which would be great especially if you could set it to either wing guns or centerline 151s, leaving rest in a emergency against plane

the mk103s also were mostly used against armor if i am correct, so those could use some AP only belts...


otherwise its just wishful thinking, given that it would take a massive overhaul of the game engine, and also anything customizeable has potential online balance issues (such as for example a all minengross belt being extremely lethal even moreso then most other weapons due to the sheer explosive output, which was btw the main rerason the 151/20 was a very good gun, not really velocity nor rof but the fact they had the MG shells which made up for the other shortcomings of the cannon)

still now that i think of custom belting im so going to use tracerless incendiary rounds

i mean please dont tell me you dont love the sight of someone being helplessly burned alive

[1984]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Some, like the .50cal, recently received changes to the belting.

what strange, i never saw any impressions or comments about these new belts, ie now better, or what...

and, by the way, in last patch for warthunder was realised ammobelting and lot of different shells... i read a little, well, if not mistaken, not bad but without free choice, only "optimized belts" ie aa/ag/without tracers... and, in fact, it's almost what we written here...

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by 1984

what strange, i never saw any impressions or comments about these new belts, ie now better, or what...

and, by the way, in last patch for warthunder was realised ammobelting and lot of different shells... i read a little, well, if not mistaken, not bad but without free choice, only "optimized belts" ie aa/ag/without tracers... and, in fact, it's almost what we written here...

It was definitely changed. It's in the patch notes and if you set Arcade=1 for the hit arrow information you can clearly see the difference between 4.10 and 4.11.

The effect is negligible although some claim it made a big difference. I always thought they were fine... so....

[1984]

Originally Posted by IceFire

The effect is negligible although some claim it made a big difference. I always thought they were fine... so....

hmm, ok, i expected something like this...

Originally Posted by panzer1b

the only downside as you mentioned would be research

oh, yes, i try some last days find more full information about shells for shvak, on russian, well, in addition to this famous page - by the way, who read full version? - i found only several fragmentary references what, of course, not enough... developer who did this work for WT, apparently, how i understood, use what we have or just not writes about sources... well, something like this, at this moment...