4.12 and UP.3.rc4

[_RAAF_Firestorm]

Brilliantly insightful post FC99.

[ElAurens]

Indeed.

Thank you sir.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by FC99

One of the main "raisons d'être" of mods is freedom in development. With this freedom you get some good and bad things. It is good that more people is involved more things can be done and very often some obscure but still interesting things are done. This works fine as long as mods are isolated one from another but as soon as more complex things are developed you can't avoid clash between the mods.

When that happens cooperation is necessary and that goes against "freedom" which is probably most attractive thing with modding. Suddenly, modder can't do whatever he wants and many are not willing to accept this. Add to this that modded game is ever changing and that require many mods to evolve too, which in turn force modders to commit to upgrade their mods to the latest popular pack. In the end what started as fun becomes almost like work. Instead of working on cool features one has to spend time on making his mods compatible with something that will be obsolete in couple of weeks.

For that reason it is inevitable that only long term successful projects are those where there is a strong core of people which share common interest and vision.

Well in light of the time between patches..... (I'm just saying....)

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by JG1992

Will be 4.12 compatibile with up.3.rc4 ?

More appropriately, will UP 3.rc4 be compatible with 4.12.

UP couldn't be bothered with being compatible with 4.11. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to be compatible with the next version, if I were you...

[|ZUTI|]

Hello friends.

It has been brought to my attention that there are still irregularities in regards of "my" work and IL2. So, let me set them straight so that you can quote me on it for future reference

Bearcat: I can assure you that I have ZERO quarrels with DT. If anything, I have the utmost respect for the majority of their team. Especially the ones that are in it only to make IL2 better. And be very sure that from those guys you hear the least. The only thing that did not sit good with me is the famous fallout that Caspar and I had. Misunderstanding or not, it just was not the case. What this team does is very good in general, but IN MY OPINION they made ONE serious mistake. That mistake is that as soon as they signed the contract with 1C about future development, they should, in MY opinion instantly rehash/re-encrypt the SFS files and separate their official IL2 completely from the mod community. By doing that they would have ZERO conflicts in the future and even the end-users would profit. They could use the official release or use the mod release. But as it is, you still have people using some mods and then complain that they have this or that problem. I can only applaud the decision to move some of the code to C libraries. Though, for the sake of maintenance in MY opinion the code should stay in java in case some crucial members change. And they have the neat/clean source anyhow. That is it. I have no resentments for them. None. We simply had different ideas. For me it was important to also work with UP team as they were the original team that enabled me to work at all on my favourite simulation but that was not wanted by some in DT. Period. I only wish them best of luck for the future and also that, at some point in the future, they would do some updates on the GFX engine, since the code is at their disposal and perhaps try to move the code to higher JVM. Though, this second part is an enormous undertaking and probably not worth the effort and time. Oh, and to rewrite the ships AI to something that deserves the title AI. Ships deserve much better. It is very hard to do that from reverse-engineering the source. Ships are the focus IMHO.

CWMV: Your hearsay (although such statements usually only have one purpose ) is true. I am NOT the easiest guy to get along to. You want to know why? Because I have ZERO problems with stating my opinion ZERO problems at saying that I don't like something and ZERO problems to say NO to people. Back in the day it was common practice for people to DEMANDING things from me. Not requesting, demanding. PMs and emails were full of such crap. Those same people were then enormously offended and took it personally when I said NO. Even if we were making business that would not fly in such manner (and in business rules are much much different). The catch is that this was my free time, this was my hobby, this was my joy and in this I OWED NOBODY NOTHING. Do you understand that? As it was also stated here (truthfully) in the end all you could hear was this: "Does this mod work? Nope, not compatible with MDS". And it was very true. Why? Because for MDS, I HAD to alter a lot of VITAL/CORE classes of IL2. Classes that the game depends on. So, the previous statement was true. It was not compatible. How much do you know about development? I ask because I would really like to know how to make such a wast modification set flexible? The devil is in the details you see. Almost none of the demander's (modders and users) whose work was not compatible DEMANDED me to include it in MDS repertuar. Mhm. And I was, for the most part, very forthcoming and helpful and did that. So, what was next step? The next step was: "MDS fucked this up, fucked that up" etc. And you know what the funniest part is? That it was NOT THE MDS FAULT. In most cases the problems that people reported I tracked back to entirely other mods code that I gracefully integrated into my work. Furthermore when new versions of the official IL2 was released, I was responsible to port it along. Crazy world, isn't it. I was doing most of the work and then I had to listen what a piece of shit MDS was because I included a mod that I did not know inside-out and that was flawed (modders of those mods know it). At some point, I just said ENOUGH. And then people started to say that I am horrible to work with, unable to get along to etc. I guess I am, but I'll be damned if I'll be anyone's bitch :> Otherwise MDS is still very much alive and kicking, it has evolved into something more that it was in version 1.2 back in the 2010/2011. And it is working flawlessly with excellent 4.11.1 IL2 (thanks again DT for nice job there) and it will for sure work with 4.12, when it is released. The CATCH is that now it is only used by a small number of people that I have grown to know and call my friends (even if they are from far away) and that actually do constructive suggestions and reports. Too often I have read here in the past from the same people that are still here and are still very opinuated ,that MDS does not work or that it broke this or that but these same people do not have ANY idea of how to even set MDS up. Nor to use any of the features that it offers. Most of the time it was just a bandwagon type of hearsay. "I heard this". "I heard that". There were NO bug reports, no missions to evaluate, nothing. Members that "have the power" over other for reasons unknown to me (probably the length of their membership and number of posts they made, even if those posts were plain crap). But apparently that counts and people blindly believe/follow them. After all, they did hear that from that particular powerful member Talk about ego trip maniacs and arrogance addicts. Me me me me, listen to me. I know what me is saying. It is true me says. Sad, but this can actually be generalised to the entire world Politicians of the IL2, if you will, hehe. So, MDS is still very much in use with a definite vision, I have just moved it from the public eye. Because I AM THAT EGOISTIC. That is that. Why deal wit all the negativity found in this IL2 world. There are much more important things to do than deal with that (funny that I am saying that after this long response, doh ).

Feel free to quote me on the above in any future references about the myth about me, MDS and DT.
Enjoy your IL2 guys. ATM it is all you have (after the CloD fiasco).
Take care!

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by |ZUTI|

...they should, in MY opinion instantly rehash/re-encrypt the SFS files and separate their official IL2 completely from the mod community ...

You are not the only one voicing that opinion, either.

[Hans Burger]

...they should, in MY opinion instantly rehash/re-encrypt the SFS files and separate their official IL2 completely from the mod community ...

+1
Good idea to have a clear situation: modded versions on one side and DT version on the other side without interference.

[Asheshouse]

Originally Posted by Hans Burger

+1
Good idea to have a clear situation: modded versions on one side and DT version on the other side without interference.

It is already a clear situation without introducing such a divisive change. No one forces you to install mods. Mods do not interfere with the work of DT. There is nothing to gain from such a move other than creating a split in the community, which is in nobody's interest.

Ashe

[Hans Burger]

I am not so sure...
At this time, there are several distribs and results generate compatibilty problems: DT distrib, HSFX distrib, UP, SAS, .... for the well known.
It is difficult for online game moreover if you take in account that there are several ways to use it: dog, coop, historical or not, full or not full real.
If community means that everyone use IL2, it is OK but, after that, it is difficult to find a common platform and objective.

If you take, for example, french groups, some of them are sticked to 4.09 and continue to mod development. As I have seen : variable weather, g effect, triggers, AI taxiing, cloud visibility, and so on have been implemented on this version since a long time.
So, it is the sense of my last post: in front of that it is (perhaps) necessary to clarify the situation and my support to Zuti proposal.

Best regards.

[Black_Sage29]

I really have no idea what MDS is all about..i just got back into IL2 after like 2 years or so. I know it had something to do with moving frontlines and being able to rearm and repair

I used to fly patch 4.08 and 4.09


What I don't understand is, Zuti why not just include MDS in the official TD patches???? . Work with TD!

...they should, in MY opinion instantly rehash/re-encrypt the SFS files and separate their official IL2 completely from the mod community ...

THIS!! Mods are killing this game fast.



For one..HSFX is not a walk in the park to install for the layman..this will turn most new simmers off right from the start. Also..you can believe what you want but I am a dedicated P-40, P-51 and P-47 flyer. The flight models for those planes have been changed in HSFX and the overheating model is changed...this makes it unbalanced because players flying the stock version of IL2 have different flight models and overheating models from HSFX flyers

Don't know much about UP.

I don't even use mods anymore, i just stick to TD's patches because it's just that much simpler to roll with clean, simple, stock version of game. Everyone has the same thing and it's simple for new players to get into the game


Just come together....do it for the game, because this game is dying fast. The community is so split up I can't even join stock server games anymore even with stock 4.11.1 ...which pretty much forced me to uninstall the game