Help dogfighting (and moderating speed)

[panzer1b]

a few more tips i can give for gunnery at high speeds

when behind and moving in close keep sights below till at around 300m. then aim above where their top is

this is hard to explain but aim where you think they will pull up ( as most evasive maneuvers are a pull up)

then just as you notice them pulling up fire, u should be around 100-200m away so its enough room to compensate for the shot a bit

this requires alot of practice and u need to learn to anticipate what he will do but it bworks wonders in high speed interception

if he does not break before you cross 150m then just aim directly at him till he breaks off or preferably ignites and is roasted extra crispy


this tactic is temporarily countered by pushing down on the stick but if he does that easy eblly shott, all you loose is a few sec@onds



as for high angle shots llike from the side its just a matter of anticipation and shooting ahead of where he is

no real tricks to it, just lots of practice, harder if hes not flyin straight ahead


and as for the bf109 id reccomend the g2, it has most preformance of the early ones but turn radius and also has enough firepower to kill most

f4 and f2 with the 20mm field mod is next up, g6 and up are terrible at turn fighting and g6 or g6 late is bad at high altitude where the g2 will outrun outclimb ect

the k4 is noot bad but ive never really liked it too much as it forces me to use the 108 and has beyond crap turn radius

anyways this tactic is bigger needed for the fw190 as it cant keep a sustained turn with anything buut at high speed




but most of all practice, this works for me, but u might find a better tactic or a different one that works

and if you like the 30mm death ray then give at least twice the lead, very slow rounds that take a long time to reach the bandit

and try to fly the enemy plane against ai, itll help you determine its advantages or disadvantages, then exploit em like nothing else



also about how to exploit cliimbing and speed, just keep your nose up a bit and throttle at a reasonable 85-90% in climb to not overheat very fast

and lower throttle to 50-60ish in a steep dive or 70 if shallow

just dont exceed 700 ina dive as anything more rips u apart....and dont climb to rapidly or to shallow, rapid climb is mainly if you want to do a hammerhead, not too useful otherwise as u become slow and potentially get hit

also pick 2 or so planes to get good with, only fly the rest occasionally as its very hard to get good in every plane

although 109s are all similar so whether its a f2 or a k4 all that changes are top speed, climb rate, and turn rate, late ones more imp to stay fast, earlys u can outturn a few planes and most late war ones

[MaxGunz]

The air combat bible:
http://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Combat...fighter+combat

Used: $13.74

Got mine in 1998 for $35 new.

More than half is on missiles. You don't need to read those parts for IL2 but do read the preface as it tells how to take and use what is written.

Warning: that book reads like chewing through bricks. It is a technical book, has no nonsense or fluff.

[K_Freddie]

Try the Me109-G6/AS. It's a nimble little plane, and fast.
Using the 20mm instead of the 30mm cannon keeps it light, but don't shoot until your prop is chewing off their tails.

The ME109 has excellent handling characteristics from stall speed (especially here) to about 400kmh. above this the aerolons get heavy (slow).

[MaxGunz]

Slowing down: 1st to say is don't waste your speed. Best way to slow down is to rise up!

If you are attacking at greater speed than your target but not hugely greater then use yoyo and barrel to stay behind and take occasional sniping shots.

You will fly a longer path, your speed will not take you out in front if you do this properly and yes it takes practice. Best way is to set up a mission with just you and 1 friendly plane flying waypoints around the map at less than high speed. You don't have to shoot, just practice yoyo's and wide spirals behind your leader. Do not try to stay on his tail.

in practice you take the sniping shots as much to force the target to turn -hard- as to hit him. When he does, rise and follow from above (rising slows you down, rise to your better turning speed) then when he straightens out to regain speed you drop to snipe and go back to yoyos as necessary.
When the target slows enough he will not be able to turn well without losing alt. When he runs out of alt to lose, he will turn like a sick cow and be very easy to shoot.

During all this you have the higher speed and retain the ability to rise above. Don't blow it in hard turning, that is what you want him to do.

That is the energy fighter's game. The slower plane may try the angles fight where your main game is to sucker the energy fighter into hard turns to lose his speed advantage. If his plane is poor turning -relative to yours at lower speed- then when he slows down you have a chance to get him.

I would rather have a speed advantage than flat turn advantage especially on a server with multiple enemies.

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Probably the best thing you can do now is to find a good squad and join.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

Slowing down: 1st to say is don't waste your speed. Best way to slow down is to rise up!

If you are attacking at greater speed than your target but not hugely greater then use yoyo and barrel to stay behind and take occasional sniping shots.

You will fly a longer path, your speed will not take you out in front if you do this properly and yes it takes practice. Best way is to set up a mission with just you and 1 friendly plane flying waypoints around the map at less than high speed. You don't have to shoot, just practice yoyo's and wide spirals behind your leader. Do not try to stay on his tail.

in practice you take the sniping shots as much to force the target to turn -hard- as to hit him. When he does, rise and follow from above (rising slows you down, rise to your better turning speed) then when he straightens out to regain speed you drop to snipe and go back to yoyos as necessary.
When the target slows enough he will not be able to turn well without losing alt. When he runs out of alt to lose, he will turn like a sick cow and be very easy to shoot.

During all this you have the higher speed and retain the ability to rise above. Don't blow it in hard turning, that is what you want him to do.
That is the energy fighter's game. The slower plane may try the angles fight where your main game is to sucker the energy fighter into hard turns to lose his speed advantage. If his plane is poor turning -relative to yours at lower speed- then when he slows down you have a chance to get him.
I would rather have a speed advantage than flat turn advantage especially on a server with multiple enemies.

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

When you fly, are you keeping The Ball near or at center? If not, you can get more speed by doing that.

IRL you would feel when it's out (a pull to one side like when turning a car) which no sim gives. So you have to develop the habit of ruddering about enough but you can with flying practice. and spot checks on that black ball in the curved track for feedback on when you have it right. It has a minor to major effect on your speed and acceleration.

Another speed-factor is your elevator trim. Trimmed nose high, you will never get your full speed and your acceleration will suck. Trim changes with speed and power settings as it does IRL. When you want speed it's better to be trimmed a tiny bit nose down and have to pull back a teensy bit that to be trimmed nose up and have to push. But coming into tight turns you want just the opposite since you will slow down while turning and -need- more and more nose up trim!

And last for now is how hard you hold your stick (with appropriate low-humor jokes) and -not- resting the weight of your arm on the stick. In practice flight you don't need to shoot, what I was taught is to hold the stick with just 2 fingers and thumb to force myself to be a light touch on the controls. Not resting arm weight on the stick is a ***VERY*** hard habit to break. When I get it right, I maneuver much better! When I tire out and rest my hand on the stick I fly more sluggish, ham-handed.

I can't emphasize how important practicing just flying and perfecting your BCM's and ACM's and control habits is. Once you know your maneuvers well and have your habits tuned you will do better and find setting up tactics far easier.

If you could conquer this game in a month, that's all it would be worth and there wouldn't much community around it.

BTW, there are scenarios when it's stacked against you. For Russians it's worst in 41-42 and for Germans it's 44-45. If it's not the planes or lack of firepower (Early-war Russians, play as Germans first time through!) that gets you, it will be numbers. If you didn't have these, you would miss a major aspect of the historic war feeling of being the underdog.
If it gets you down then go practice flying and work on your speed and those maneuvers that failed you. Conquering maneuvers and your own habits isn't as satisfying as shooting a plane down but flying better has it's own rewards that will continue to pay past the next 100 shoot-downs.

This is so true and while it is a well known concept.. the practice takes practice. I have begun to fly around with no target.. just trying to practice keeping my speed up and using the vertical to slow down and keeping that ball as centered as possible throughout the process. It is not as simple as it sounds.

[MaxGunz]

It is not as simple as it sounds.

No it ain't Mr. Bearcat. Notta-tall.

There's too much to learn just flying maneuvers with full attention to throw in SA, tactics and pressure and expect to learn anything like as fast or well. Maneuver flying has got to be second nature just to free up mental capacity for SA and tactics at the same time. I can tell ya I'm no longer up to the full task but I'm still beyond the mudhens.

If you can get practice time online with a better flier, go for it. Many times I have been through sessions where another player would say "can you do this?" and in finally doing that I learned something. Or just play follow the leader, or try, and learn from that.

I set the view to cover the instruments and a little over the dash when practice-flying. I need to see The Ball the most as I got no feel in the sim and have to build up a set of cues to keep the rudder anywhere near right and that is *hard* without spending time now and again watching and confirming what looks and feels right even when not watching the ball. Driving without keeping one eye on the speedometer is simple by compare.

And that's where the Mustang shines in IL-2, at least with the ones than have the mini-ball in the base of the gunsight. I count that to be a major advantage and LOL! it's -historic- to have that there.
What isn't historic is sitting in a stationary chair not feeling the sideways tug of slip or G's or speed and vibration. All those disconnects and only one plane type in IL-2 lets you see that important cue while zoomed to shoot.

I posted this before when Oleg was around the forums: we need a slip gauge in the speedbar. Just a dot on a line would do, but we need that to replace the sideways-tug feeling that real pilots get. Everyone could run that and the playing field would be more level. I wonder if that's on any list DT has?
Well, devicelink is more open now too.

[Bolelas]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

I posted this before when Oleg was around the forums: we need a slip gauge in the speedbar. Just a dot on a line would do, but we need that to replace the sideways-tug feeling that real pilots get. Everyone could run that and the playing field would be more level. I wonder if that's on any list DT has?

+1
Never tought of that, and it is a great idea! Lets ask TD if they can do that on a future patch.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

I posted this before when Oleg was around the forums: we need a slip gauge in the speedbar. Just a dot on a line would do, but we need that to replace the sideways-tug feeling that real pilots get.

Some sort of g-meter" and accelerometer," too. The first would tell you approximately how many g's you're pulling before you start to gray or red-out due to GLOC. The second would simulate the feeling of being pushed back in your seat as you accelerate, being pushed forwards as you decelerate or "hanging in space" as the plane "drops out from under you" in a stall (or as you start to "fall out of the airplane" when flying inverted).