Oleg Maddox's Room #1

[Meusli]

Another quick thought, to do with bombing formation. In the mighty 8th game by infogrames it would show you a position box where you should be in the formation, this would just be a wire framed box nothing fancy. In previous answers you said it might be possible to do on screen pointers for beginners any chance of this?

[Feuerfalke]

Flying in a vertical staggered line was the first method to beat the Freya-Radar for British bombers. Their losses went from 60% to only 3 planes overall with that method, while raiding Hamburg. Suicide? Your choice.

How many high-level precision-bombings were made during daylight, that really deserved the description "precision", though?

So the problem gamewise would be to actually teach the Lead AI to drop his bombs early and the player to adapt to the pros and cons of the virtual battlefield.

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

Flying in a vertical staggered line was the first method to beat the Freya-Radar for British bombers. Their losses went from 60% to only 3 planes overall with that method, while raiding Hamburg. Suicide? Your choice.

How many high-level precision-bombings were made during daylight, that really deserved the description "precision", though?

I ask you to look again at my last post - I stated this was for 8thAF.

And please, you can't compare RAF night bombing to USAAF daylight bombing.

Plus, in terms of precission night bombing was 10 times as bad as daylight bombing.

If you want to discuss this further lets start another thread, not here.

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

So the problem gamewise would be to actually teach the Lead AI to drop his bombs early and the player to adapt to the pros and cons of the virtual battlefield.

That I agree with. I asked Oleg for a feature of 'red light going off' to help us bomb online. (only if it is historically correct, of course) I haven't played IL2 offline for last 3 years.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by T.}{.O.R.

I ask you to look again at my last post - I stated this was for 8thAF.

And please, you can't compare RAF night bombing to USAAF daylight bombing.

Plus, in terms of precission night bombing was 10 times as bad as daylight bombing.

I didn't compare them in terms of precision, if you reread my post.

But you put up a "general rule" that was not even general with the 8th, as there were a lot of different tactics and formations used for bombing, especially in reaction to FlaK-usage and coverage, enemy fighter tactics and target characteristics. Just compare strikes on Cologne-Wesseling to the raid on the Cologne railroad-station. Completely different in almost any regard.

The usage of bomber-waves was always the most lacking part in TheMightyEigthII and in IL2, but according to previous statements, this hopefully will be history with BoB.

BTW, I recommend the MightyEigth Airforce Museum. Loads of information and a great documentary movie there - when I was there, a veteran B17 Crewman talked a bit about tactics and ammunitions used.

[csThor]

Effectively what needs to be done is to model what we germans call "Zündschaltkasten" in detail. So the player can set the necessary variables to a standard both online (where the formation leader determines the values) and offline (where the formation leader predetermines the values, regardless whether the player or the AI leads):

- salvo or individual drop
- attack method (horizontal attack or dive attack)
- drop delay
- bomb delay

These parameters could be set in the Ju 88.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by csThor

Effectively what needs to be done is to model what we germans call "Zündschaltkasten" in detail. So the player can set the necessary variables to a standard both online (where the formation leader determines the values) and offline (where the formation leader predetermines the values, regardless whether the player or the AI leads):

- salvo or individual drop
- attack method (horizontal attack or dive attack)
- drop delay
- bomb delay

These parameters could be set in the Ju 88.

+1 !

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

I didn't compare them in terms of precision, if you reread my post.

But you put up a "general rule" that was not even general with the 8th, as there were a lot of different tactics and formations used for bombing, especially in reaction to FlaK-usage and coverage, enemy fighter tactics and target characteristics. Just compare strikes on Cologne-Wesseling to the raid on the Cologne railroad-station. Completely different in almost any regard.

The usage of bomber-waves was always the most lacking part in TheMightyEigthII and in IL2, but according to previous statements, this hopefully will be history with BoB.

BTW, I recommend the MightyEigth Airforce Museum. Loads of information and a great documentary movie there - when I was there, a veteran B17 Crewman talked a bit about tactics and ammunitions used.

Glad to see we're on the same page here.

I'm very familiar with most of the formations in the 8th AF. Some of them I've described in my manual v2.0. Tactics changed throughout the war, and most obviously - different targets require different aproach.

The usage of bomber-waves was always the most lacking part in TheMightyEigthII and in IL2, but according to previous statements, this hopefully will be history with BoB.

...yeah 18 bombers out of which 12 are ghosts in B-17II - terrible. IL2 at least offeres FMB customization of formations.

Effectively what needs to be done is to model what we germans call "Zündschaltkasten" in detail. So the player can set the necessary variables to a standard both online (where the formation leader determines the values) and offline (where the formation leader predetermines the values, regardless whether the player or the AI leads):

- salvo or individual drop
- attack method (horizontal attack or dive attack)
- drop delay
- bomb delay

These parameters could be set in the Ju 88.

+1!

[Feuerfalke]

Glad to see we're on the same page here.

True.

Maybe Oleg can share a little insight on bomberformations and waves for BoB?

In IL2 most of the times you encounter bomber-formations it's rather a few fighters against a few bombers, maybe with some fighter cover, but since we will have refueling and rearming in BoB, defending several waves of bombers would be much more realistic and thrilling, too, IMHO.

At least AFAIK this wave-tactics was used by German bombers quite often during their attacks?

[BOKATAR]

Hello there,

I just want to ask whether the damaging sequence will be animated or not? To clarify for instance, in IL-2 your windscreen goes from "clean" to "oil-splashed" in a split frame, same goes for external areas, wings etc.. Is there anyway to animate those sequences for a bit...

I hope this wasn't asked already. And a big thanks to the Oleg and Co..

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

At least AFAIK this wave-tactics was used by German bombers quite often during their attacks?

Can you be a bit more specific please?



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I got four more questions if I may:

1) Will features like 'F6' be server controlable now? Meaning that we can have servers with externals on but no external padlock?

2) Will gunners now feel the effect of G-forces? IMHO, in IL2 the most unrealistic thing related to how gunners work is their resistance to G-forces. And this goes specificaly for tail gunners which can accuratly aim at you even if their plane is pulling extreme G's.

3) How will gun positions and bomber stations work in SoW? If the bombardier is on the bomb run - will he also be able to man the nose gun or will nose gun remain silent if you attack a bomber who is close to releasing his bombs? Another example are waist gunners - in He-111 to my knowledge only one person operated both waist gunners. If bomber is being attacked from 3 and 9 o'clock will only one gun fire?

4) Will gunners scan the horizon for enemy planes or will guns and turrets be in their default position at all times when no enemies are nearby?

Edit:

I thought of one more.

5) Will control surface movements be visible on other planes than just player's in online DF servers and tracks?

Edit 2:

Just thought of three more questions about ship modeling:

6) How will ships behave when heavily damaged / sinking? Will it be different from IL2 when they sink in a matter of seconds after being destroyed or will they sink by flooding or heavy damage (especialy if in stormy weather)? What about small (example: landing crafts or RAF rescue speedboats...) - will strafing be accompanied by an explosion to tell us that they are destroyed or will it be possible to model them like I asked above (just strafe them and they sink slowly, so we don't allways get that explosion which tells us that they are destroyed)?

7) In relation to the above questions, will ships have weak points - for example if hit in ammo magazine to cause fatal damage and if hit in other not vital areas to make them withstand more damage/hits?

9) Any chance for lifeboats / survivors in the sea after large ships sink? (I know it's maybe a long shot but...)