Song Drawbacks Make Some Nigh Useless

[Chro]

Originally Posted by camelotcrusade

For the most part I agree, I really only use song of helheim, and when that isn't necessary, I use the dark fairy, modded. The mod (formerly fix -_-) that makes it do what it said at launch (buffs for you, debuffs for them) makes it fun for me and feel like I'm actually a magical bard. Fortunately we have documentation for that change so if we want to mod it ourselves we can.

Imo additional points in the skill shouldn't make them stronger, but instead reduce the penalties so all of them are usable without regrets. For example maybe at rank 2 song of dark fairy gives you a 50% to work like the mod and it's 100% at rank 3. Attack and defense songs could reduce initiative penalty, and so on.

That's a good idea, especially since the 10% and 20% changes don't really amount to much, particularly on the skills that only give a bonus of +2 or even +5.

[camelotcrusade]

Originally Posted by Chro

That's a good idea, especially since the 10% and 20% changes don't really amount to much, particularly on the skills that only give a bonus of +2 or even +5.

Glad you think so. Maybe we can mod this functonality into it later, but it doesn't sound like an easy change.

[Razorflame]

well i agree on most points


1 song is superior to all because of the massive undead fights

then if there is no undead i ussualy go for the gold one(+1 ini)
and some extra cash after the battle(not that it;'s needed) but at least a decent buff

and other than that i use the dark pixie
for buff/debuff

the rest of the song are just obsolete and i never use them


giving u like 8 songs IIRC and only using 3 to me that is poor game design

[Zechnophobe]

I've used some of the others, mainly the fire/cold damage ones, since they let you deal potentially large bonus damage to certain enemies. Or at least I think they do...

The issue I have, is that the same spells that increase your fire damage, also increase your fire resist. But most enemies that DEAL fire damage also RESIST it. So very rarely do I feel like it's going to be awesome.. and then the massive penalty to init kicks in .

[Handel]

It is the initiative which saves he day with no-loss battles. You have rage + spells + loki's touch. That's often is enough to disable the enemy troops for 2 turns until you slaughter the dangerous units with your range attacks.

[namad]

the drawback of not using the other songs isn't really valid as a drawback is it? I mean a viking or soothsayer is never using any song! so even if each song is balanced to do almost nothing it's still fairly useful? I mean it only costs a couple runes! for the same price you would expect a purely positive fixed benefit of a couple % to something, a flexible bonus should be even more minor... and it is?



the reason the anti-undead songs are the most powerful songs is that the skald class replaces the paladin class... and the song ability replaces several anti-undead abilities paladins had before... so this is INTENTIONAL here

[camelotcrusade]

Personally I'm not a fan of making something so good it needs to be simutaneously nerfed to balance it. At what price, power?

For crying out loud, he's a bard, not a blood mage making pacts with dark powers. Can't he sing a few happy songs without inviting Odin's wrath, the baleful eye of Hel, or Loki's slimy touch?

It's safer to be a wizard.

[Loopy]

Even worse than the horrible drawbacks, I hate how the drawbacks get stronger along with the bonuses. That's plain bad. A high level Skald can literally have 0 initiative with all their units for half of the songs.

If I was balancing things I would do something like this:

Edda level 1: As it is.
Edda level 2: +30% bonuses/-30% drawbacks.
Edda level 3: +60% bonuses/-60% drawbacks.

Potentially make level 2 and 3 cost a bit more to compensate.