Pilot kill after pilot kill. How do they do it??

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

On a more serious note can't the servers restrict loadouts like in IL-2 1946? Would solve these fantasy beltings etc.

Salute

1. The SmK (H) Tungsten round is clearly causing an ahistorical imbalance, since it makes the E-1's weapons more effective than the E-3's and E-4's, not accurate representation of the real situation.
2. The round was in very short supply, its not even listed in the game as part of the standard E-1 loadout, unlike the Dewilde Inciendary round in the Spitfires and Hurricanes or the M-Geschoss in the E-4.
3. We don't have an accurate determination of exactly how good this round was.

I am not raising an issue about the M-Geschoss, that was clearly part of the battle, and an real indicator of which direction the Luftwaffe was taking its air to air weapons program in 1940, ie. towards 20mm weapons.

I'd be happy to see a server with historical beltings, including restricting the British to limited numbers of DeWilde rounds.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

2. The round was in very short supply, its not even listed in the game as part of the standard E-1 loadout, unlike the Dewilde Inciendary round in the Spitfires and Hurricanes or the M-Geschoss in the E-4.

Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence. Please quote a source that states the round was "in very short supply".

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence. Please quote a source that states the round was "in very short supply".

Go back and read my posts.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

Go back and read my posts.

I did. You seem to be confusing "my source doesn't mention the tungsten ammo" or "the tungsten ammo was less common than the standard ammo" with "the tungsten ammo was in short supply"

If you can't quote it, then I'll accept that you agree.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

I did. You seem to be confusing "my source doesn't mention the tungsten ammo" or "the tungsten ammo was less common than the standard ammo" with "the tungsten ammo was in short supply"

If you can't quote it, then I'll accept that you agree.

Not confused, the ammunition was in short supply, wasn't part of the standard loadout.

Did it exist as part of a Luftwaffe ordinance plan? No idea. Probably, at some point, who knows when?

I actually think its up to advocates for its use to prove it was a part of the battle.

More importantly, like other glitches which affect the game, it is creating an ahistorical enviroment.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

Not confused, the ammunition was in short supply, wasn't part of the standard loadout.

You don't have a source, but you keep claiming there was some kind of ammo shortage with that particular round.

[lonewulf]

I don't know if people are or aren't using 100% 8mm tungsten, but even if they are, is it really an issue? If 2cm cannon rounds easily penetrate aircraft armour (ball goes through about 14mm worth at 200m - that's more than twice the thickness of a Spit back plate) what's the difference? It just means that an E 1 can probably kill you just as quick as an E 3, if it gets rounds on your head or back plate. The trick of course, as others have already pointed out, is to avoid a situation where this can happen. Much easier said than done of course but that's the challenge.

[Kongo-Otto]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

You don't have a source, but you keep claiming there was some kind of ammo shortage with that particular round.

Tungsten ore (in German Tungsten = Wolfram) was in extremely short supply in Germany so that after no more Tungsten ore (Wolfram) supplies were available in adequate numbers to the German Arms Industry the Production of Weapons and tungsten cored ammo like the
2,8 cm schwere Panzerbüchse 41, 4,2 cm Pak 41, 7,5 cm Pak 41 and the 5,/7,5/ 8,8 cm Panzergranate 40 (H) (H= Hartkern aka Tungsten Core) had to be stopped.

Germany’s minimum requirements for Tungsten ore were 3,500 metric tons per year.

• 1939 4142 metric tons tungsten ore were imported from China, 62 from India, 638 from Portugal and 74 from Spain. Total: 4916 metric tons
• 1940 61 metric tons tungsten ore were imported from Portugal, 800 from China and 394 from Spain. Total: 1255 metric tons
• 1941 318 metric tons tungsten ore were imported from Portugal, 1100 from Spain. Total: 1418
• 1942 794 metric tons tungsetn ore were Imported from Portugal, 1100 from Spain. Total: 1894
• 1943 835 metric tons tungsten ore were Imported from Portugal, 1100 from Spain. Total: 1935
• 1944 895 metric tons tungsten ore were Imported from Portugal, 564 from Spain (smuggled). Total: 1459

Great sources for the shortage of Tungsten and many other urgently needed materials and also the overstreched german war industry is: Germany and the second World War Volume V/ I and II
http://www.amazon.com/Germany-Second.../dp/0198228872
http://www.amazon.com/Germany-Second...798559-3538864
CARUANA L.R. and ROCKOFF H.(2001): "A Wolfram in Sheep ́s Clothing: U.S.Economic Warfare in Spain, 1940-1944." NBER Working Paper No. H0132
LEITZ, C. (1996): Economic Relations Between Nazi Germany and Franco’ s Spain1939-1945. Clarendon Press. Oxford

[pstyle]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence.

Just to be pedantic :

In many historical cases, absence of evidence is evidence of absence. It's then a matter of degree or probability how strong that evidential gap is with respect to the event proposed.

I think what you mean to say is that absence of evidence is not PROOF of absence.

[AbortedMan]

My dog smiles with his tail.

...am I helping?