Black Six & Luthier

[csThor]

And who would be incorporated? Given the amount of nitpicking, personal feuds and the habit of dismembering every single FM-related post to pick out the parts that don't fit one's personal agenda I don't see a common ground to base such a close beta group on. Too many overgrown egos, too little willingness for constructive discussions.

Originally Posted by csThor

And who would be incorporated? Given the amount of nitpicking, personal feuds and the habit of dismembering every single FM-related post to pick out the parts that don't fit one's personal agenda I don't see a common ground to base such a close beta group on. Too many overgrown egos, too little willingness for constructive discussions.

Well I agree in parts, but we are not talking here about fm's as such, we are talking about reintroducing old bugs from previous patches, not being able to start and aircraft for example is a clear indication the dev's do not test their own work.

[Fjordmonkey]

It's called a release candidate for a reason. It's not the finished patch, from what I understood.

Originally Posted by Fjordmonkey

It's called a release candidate for a reason. It's not the finished patch, from what I understood.

Yes, and at the same time you are completely missing the point.

[Fjordmonkey]

Not really, no. A release-candidate is not the final product, and may or may not be the final product. It may still be pulled and redone at this stage.

Don't get me wrong, I seriously hope this isn't representative and I know you're giving them feedback, but don't skin your bears before they're shot.

[epoch]

Originally Posted by Fjordmonkey

It's called a release candidate for a reason. It's not the finished patch, from what I understood.

If I go to a car dealer and ask for a test drive, I expect them to at least give me the keys so I can get the car moving.

You can't seriously suggest that not being able to start something as major as the Hurricane is due to this patch being a RC. Rubbish - it's nothing more than sloppiness with a dash of nochalance thrown in for good measure.

For sure there are some positive aspects of this latest patch, but the issues that have been missed (or rather, reintroduced) are just, well ....

[Fjordmonkey]

Originally Posted by epoch

If I go to a car dealer and ask for a test drive, I expect them to at least give me the keys so I can get the car moving.

You're not dealing with a car, you're dealing with a software-product. The differences are as legion as that analogy of yours is severely overused and if you cannot see that, there's damn little I can do to convince you.

Originally Posted by epoch

You can't seriously suggest that not being able to start something as major as the Hurricane is due to this patch being a RC. Rubbish - it's nothing more than sloppiness with a dash of nochalance thrown in for good measure.

It's a bug, and you WILL find that in an Release-candidate. The Hurri No-start bug would, at least to me, be grounds to pull the patch for a rework before releasing another RC. Then again, that's how I work and think, although others might think otherwise.

Originally Posted by epoch

For sure there are some positive aspects of this latest patch, but the issues that have been missed (or rather, reintroduced) are just, well ....

Too hideous to release this as a final patch? Agree completely.

[Anders_And]

Originally Posted by Fjordmonkey

You're not dealing with a car, you're dealing with a software-product. The differences are as legion as that analogy of yours is severely overused and if you cannot see that, there's damn little I can do to convince you.



It's a bug, and you WILL find that in an Release-candidate. The Hurri No-start bug would, at least to me, be grounds to pull the patch for a rework before releasing another RC. Then again, that's how I work and think, although others might think otherwise.



Too hideous to release this as a final patch? Agree completely.

Fjordmonkey as I see it, a RC is basically a patch ready for official realease. They just want to hear the communities final words before making it public. A RC is as far as they understand a finished product and therefor a candidate for release. Well They wouldnt think its a candiate for release if they would have had their own testing going. This is pretty obvious I would say.
I also agree that they should release the beta to a chosen few to let them test the
patch for a week before releasing it to the public. BUT problem is that since they are barely working on CLoD they will take forever to fix the bugs. Its pretty obvious that CLOd patches are made the last hour on a friday afternoon with a few quick changes of coding anf then just released as s patch.. Then its up to us to tell them. But since they dont listen or even read here its a bit of a one way discussion..
Sorry for spelling mistakes. This is written with my phone and its small keyboard!

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by Anders_And

a RC is basically a patch ready for official realease. They just want to hear the communities final words before making it public. A RC is as far as they understand a finished product and therefor a candidate for release.

Wrong

[MB_Avro_UK]

Originally Posted by csThor

And who would be incorporated? Given the amount of nitpicking, personal feuds and the habit of dismembering every single FM-related post to pick out the parts that don't fit one's personal agenda I don't see a common ground to base such a close beta group on. Too many overgrown egos, too little willingness for constructive discussions.

A good observation. And as others have posted,this patch is the 'start' and not the final product.