Spit/109 sea level speed comparisons in 1.08 beta patch

[JtD]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

That's an unsustained turn. What you forget that in an unsustained turn, the 109 will still loose less speed than the Spit at high speeds, because the basics (=more excess thrust) did not change.

No, this isn't necessarily an unsustained turn. The same way the 109 has to give up level speed to turn, the Spitfire has, and for each change in turn rate, the speed loss of the 109 is higher, or for each loss of speed, the Spitfires turn rate change is larger. If the 109 settles at a load factor or turn rate, the Spitfire can do the same, at a lower speed.

It really sums up to that the 109's biggest advantage is in flying straight and level, it will remain competitive throughout the high & medium speed range, with the advantage always decreasing. All this, mind you, at sea level against a 6.25lb boosted Spitfire I, which is as good as it gets for the 109.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by JtD

The same way the 109 has to give up level speed to turn, the Spitfire has, and for each change in turn rate, the speed loss of the 109 is higher

Because?

or for each loss of speed, the Spitfires turn rate change is larger.

Because?

If the 109 settles at a load factor or turn rate, the Spitfire can do the same, at a lower speed.

Yes.

It really sums up to that the 109's biggest advantage is in flying straight and level,

The 109s biggest advantage is its overall smaller drag, more powerful engine, and higher power to weight ratio, good harmony of controls (at least IRL) and superior near-stall handling IMHO.

it will remain competitive throughout the high & medium speed range, with the advantage always decreasing.

Agreed.

All this, mind you, at sea level against a 6.25lb boosted Spitfire I, which is as good as it gets for the 109.

Certainly. But then again, we haven't touched into the realm of 1.45ata WEP or a DB 601N under the hood. Or deploying flaps.

[JtD]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Because?

It's in the physics. If you look (very closely in well hidden places) at the turn calc spreadsheet I attached the other day, you can see that near each planes top speed, the 109 gains ~1.1 °/s turn rate for every m/s of speed given up, while the Spitfire gains about ~1.5 °/s turn rate for every m/s given up. This means in example, for a 9°/s turn rate the 109 loses ~29 km/h, while the Spitfire loses ~22 km/h and has thus narrowed the gap by ~7 km/h. It's a trend that continues until at low speeds the Spitfire becomes superior.

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And can we all, now that we have a chance for few days of peace, just once try to get along with each other in a civilised way? No polemics, arrogance, sarcasm and all these little annoyances for say the next 5 days?