Soviet fighters and 4.12

[1984]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Yak-9 1942 model versus a Bf109F-4 for example

yak-9 1942 have strange perfomance...

in 4.12 compare - weight 2870 kg (ok), turn time - 19 sec (17.5 in RL), like heavy yak-7b with 3030 kg, climb - 17.16 m/s (16.34 m/s in RL), speed in 4.12 little high...

why and for what yak-9 have this turn and climb, i don't know... Yak-9D have similar errors in perfomance and in weapon...


plus in game need "yak-9 1943" -

Як-9 М-105ПФ выпускали два завода: N153 - с октября 1942 г. по февраль 1943 г. (с 1-й по 3-ю серию, последний самолет - N03-51), всего 195 самолетов; и N 166-с января по август 1943 г. (с 1-й по 6-ю серию), всего 264 самолета.

because in 43 yak-9 can have better perfomance from yak-9d... yak-9d can't be "yak-9 1943", because more heavy with 320 kg of fuel...


about "overmodelled" yak-9t...


really need do correct weight - 2850-2870 kg of early yak-9 + 150 kg of weapon differences (weight give another climb), but do little better turn (18.5 sec), and this is normal yak-9t'43 of main production...

and of course, need more series=perfomances... look here -

Самолет Як-9Т N 13036 производства завода N 166 выпуска декабря 1943

Максимальная скорость у земли - 544 км/час

Максимальная скорость на 2-й границе высотности (Н=3650 м) - 603 км/час

not bad for serial yak-9t and this is not a prototype...


so, in game needed something like 3 yak-9t with 530 (first aircrafts), 537 (main production) and 544 (good quality) km/h at SL and etc...

(yak-9K, in fact=yak-9T and no any serious differences in perfomance, but in game K worse than T... maybe, i heard something like this, basis for K were planes after repair... if no, it's wrong)...

[1984]

oh, i remembered where read about repaired yak-9k - http://vadimvswar.narod.ru/ALL_OUT/T...z/FlAPz057.htm...

С пушками НС-45 была выпущена лишь небольшая войсковая серия истребителя Як-9К в количестве 53 единиц. Опытный экземпляр самолета этого типа — Як-9Т (зав. №01-21) с НС-45 (боекомплект 29 снарядов) в период с 23 января по 29 марта 1944 г. успешно отлетал государственные испытания в НИИ ВВС. Акт по испытаниям был утвержден 9 апреля.

По сравнению с Як-9Т (с НС-37) летные данные нового варианта «Яка» снизились, что в отчете объяснялось плохим восстановительным ремонтом самолета перед установкой на него 45-мм пушки.

well, i think, we need corrected 9K performance - if only first prototype was repaired yak...

maybe, because in weight not so much difference (5-10 kg or something like this), just give to yak-9k FM of yak-9t...

[gaunt1]

yak-9 1942 have strange perfomance...

I think Yak-9 1942 and Yak-9D are OK, they have very well modeled FM. Maybe their climb rate is a bit too much, but really just a bit. I think they should be leaved as they are now. Lavochkins and VK-107 powered Yak-9s are that need serious FM changes.

[1984]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

I think Yak-9 1942 and Yak-9D are OK, they have very well modeled FM. Maybe their climb rate is a bit too much, but really just a bit.

1 sec of climb (like extra 100 kg of weight), 1.5 sec of turn (like extra 150 kg of weight=heavy yak-9t, d... etalon of yak-9 1942 have 16.5 sec) and 5 (maybe 10) km/h of speed - it's not so much?!

don't make me laugh, pls...

in game and in RL it's was much, and i think, this is why now yak-9 1942 not like real very maneuverable original...

something like this, i think, was only yak-3 (if 20.21 sec in compare it's true - it's just unbelievable, because totally wrong) or yak-9m with pf2 and with good quality (with 3050 kg of FULL weight with 480 kg of fuel)...

Lavochkins and VK-107 powered Yak-9s are that need serious FM changes.

of course, but not so as you think and as mainly write here...

[gaunt1]

1984!

I have no idea from where you got those numbers for Yak-9 1942 model.
Current FM is correct. No need to change that.

in game and in RL it's was much, and i think, this is why now yak-9 1942 not like real very maneuverable original...

I've never ever had problems shooting down '42-43 LW fighters in a Yak-9. The Yak easily outturn anything german, its climb rate and acceleration are also quite good.


Check this:
http://simhq.net/forum/ubbthreads.ph...1284449/1.html

Yak series.
Again we have a lot of modifications with considerable fluctuation between results.
TsAGI book "Samoletostroenie V SSSR":
Yak1 - 20-21sec turntime, 275m turnradius
Yak1B - 17-19sec turntime, 275m turnradius
Book A.T.Stepanets "Istrebiteli Yak perioda Velikoj otechestvennoj vojny":
Yak1 prototype - 24sec turntime
Yak1'41 M-105P engine - 20-21sec turntime
Yak1'42 M-105PA engine - 19-20sec turntime
Yak1B'43 M-105PF engine - 19sec turntime
Yet theres one thing what helps to find true relative performance - NII VVS made multiple testfights between various Yak modifications and captured Bf109F2 and G2 and these test reports are quoted in book "Istrebiteli Yak perioda Velikoj otechestvennoj vojny" alongside Yaks improvement history.
These test fights revealed that Bf109F2 had advantage in horizontal and vertical turning against all Yak1 models both with M-105PA and more powerfull M-109PF engine.
The only Yak1 what overcome Bf109 (only Bf109G2) in turnrates were 1943 year Yak1 models with improved aerodynamics and M-105PF engine and 1943 year Yak1B with M-105PF engine.

The turn time of the Yak-9 didnt improve over the earlier models, so 17.5s is nonsense.

[Pursuivant]

Given the variable production quality of certain Soviet planes, and perhaps optimistic official assessments of their performance, I wonder if the most diplomatic way to resolve the issue wouldn't be to have different FM and DM models for production vs. test versions of certain aircraft.

A possibly simpler option would to create a "production version" loadout option. It would add mass and/or drag to the FM like a weapon or drop tank, but couldn't be jettisoned. That would be a nice method of simulating things like poor production quality or engine compression.

This option wouldn't need to be just for Soviet planes. Some of the late war German and Japanese aircraft were also relatively poorly built, as were planes such as the Brewster Buffalo.

[1984]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

I have no idea from where you got those numbers for Yak-9 1942 model.

of course, because you only write and not read...

Check this:
http://simhq.net/forum/ubbthreads.ph...1284449/1.html

data from old posts from don't know who, on english? ok, i read it 2-3 years ago, but you really not understand what i read all this and more on original language many times?...

The turn time of the Yak-9 didnt improve over the earlier models, so 17.5s is nonsense.

how i see, for you all here nonsence - turntime, perfomance, fm etc... what i can say here, if you not belive and not read? i can't do here nothing...

[CWMV]

From Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War, Vol. 1: Single-Engined Fighters
(Yefim Gordon, Dmitri Khazanov)