Kurfürst - Bf 109 Performance Resource site UPDATEs

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by ICDP

Kurfurst is a great source for material for the 109 and Spitfireperformance is a great source period. The problem is that both sources are provided by blatantly biased people. The best course of action is to find many sources and come to your own conclussions. Be carefull reading books that don't show the original source, they tend to guote the same source (usually a wrong one). For example the Bf109G6 in clean condition should reach about 400mph but is very often shown as having a top speed of 386mph.

From my experience over the years on various sites Buzzsaw is blatantly biased (think Red Kurfurst). He is one of those people who makes ridiculous claims that in genreal Allied AC in IL2 are porked and Axis AC are overmodelled (see above for evidence of this). Remember to filter out the massive bias some people have on these forums and you can use their sources with other sources to make an informed opinion.

In short, read many different sources to eliminate natural bias. Learn to recognise bias (not everone is as blatant as Kurfurst or Buzzsaw). Pilot accounts are a great read but tell next to nothing about relative performance because most variables are left out.

Good post ICDP except I would say the Hungarian is the one who is the more biased. This from the various threads I have read in which he and Mike Williams have participated in. In every thread Mike Williams has always been polite and cordial unlike the other participant.

Now Kurfurst has already many translated documents on his site. He has a translated version of the document and the original document so why can't he refine the translated document and include it on his site? Kurfurst has no reason not to include the document, even if still in German, except for the fact it does not show the 109 'in a good light'.

As to what is in Baubeschreibung für das Flugzeugmuster Messerschmitt Me 109 mit Daimler-Benz-Motor DB 601, there is some discrepancy with L.Dv. 556/3. (ie 460kph @ 0km)

Unfortunately, if one questions 'the party line' on his forum one is PNGed, leaving one no recourse than to do so on other boards.

[ICDP]

I would say that Kurfurst is one of the most 109 biased people I have ever seen on any WWII aviation board. He undoubtedly knows a lot about the 109 and his web site and information are invaluable (thanks Kurfurst). The problem he has is that he cannot be relied upon to give an unbiased opinion. Buzzsaw is of the same mould and always aims to show the Axis AC in a bad light while cherry picking the good points of the Allied AC.

I must point out ALL people are biased in some way, the trick is to ignore your bias and see the truth. I for example don't like the looks of the Spitfire but know it was without a doubt an outstanding fighter aircraft. I love the Hurricane but accept that it was outclassed by most of its opponents. I love ALL WWII aviation from ALL sides, I don't look at good v evil I only see WWII combat AC and that is my passion. I can happily fly a plane that has a swastika painted on its fin because I know it doesn't make me a nazi. I can happily shoot down the good guys because it is only a sim and noone is actually dying or getting hurt.

The best advice I can give someone who flies in IL2 is to fly both sides. You will come to see that each side has its fair share of FM/DM problems.

[Kurfürst]

Some new updates to the site. DB 605ASM power curves, 605DB/DC details of allowable manifold pressures etc.

[Kurfürst]

Some new material has been added:

Messerschmitt AG. Augsburg - Die Kurvenwendigkeit der Me-typen II. Teilbericht.
The turning performance of the Messerschmitt types II. Partial report.
Technischer Bericht TB Nr. 17/40.
August 1940.

Messerschmitt A.G. Projektbüro theoretical study of the turn performance of various Messerschmitt types. This partial report contains the theory behind calculating turning radius and time, illustrated on an example of a Bf 109E in sustained and diving turns, as well as misc. information such as propeller effiency curves for Bf 109E, Bf 109F-4, Bf 110C, Me 209 and Me 210.)

In German.

[SiThSpAwN]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Some new material has been added:

Messerschmitt AG. Augsburg - Die Kurvenwendigkeit der Me-typen II. Teilbericht.
The turning performance of the Messerschmitt types II. Partial report.
Technischer Bericht TB Nr. 17/40.
August 1940.

Messerschmitt A.G. Projektbüro theoretical study of the turn performance of various Messerschmitt types. This partial report contains the theory behind calculating turning radius and time, illustrated on an example of a Bf 109E in sustained and diving turns, as well as misc. information such as propeller effiency curves for Bf 109E, Bf 109F-4, Bf 110C, Me 209 and Me 210.)

In German.

Do you still have this document? If so, see my PM to you... thanks!