Thoughts about Friday's update

[Slipstream2012]

Originally Posted by csThor

I don't want to join the choirs of nay- or yay-sayers. I merely want to remark on a few things I've read here.

1.) Maddox Games today is not the Maddox Games which produced the original Il-2 line. It's a new team which has yet to prove it's up to the task.

I couldn't agree more!

2.) Expecting them to fix CloD on the nebulous premise of gaining more buyers for CloD is ignoring the realities of the market. IIRC a game that earns its RoI in the first week (or few weeks) or it doesn't, anything after is merely nice to have but will not turn the fortunes. The bosses of 1C know this logic and the business issues are what drives their decisions.

What are good "new buyers" if they lose half of their current community because they released Clod too early to bad reviews, and have yet to patch the game to a suitable level in over a year, not to mention the lack of communication. All business depend on two types of customer, the new and the current, and word of mouth is the oldest but still most valid form of advertisement.
Now if the current customers are upset over a faulty product it doesn't take long for word to get around that a company should be avoided like the plague, especially on the internet, and even if their next product is the best thing on the planet there are going to be many that think "once bitten, twice shy"
Its about track record.

3.) Reputation-wise CloD is already dead. It's gotten so many deserved bad reviews that turning around the trend is not possible.

Agree totally, however I want what I paid for, as do most of us here, not for it to be abandoned in favour of BoM. I spent 2 years flying the Eastern Front in the original IL2 over ten years ago before FB, ACES, PF & 1946 expanded the theater, so when the "award winning IL2 team" announced Clod I bought it because it was relevant to me being English, allowing me to finally experience flying my own theater.

If they do what Luthier said in the update and merge BoM with Clod, and integrate & improve it equally along with the other theaters, I will obviously wait for reviews before buying it, and if its up to standard I will buy it and enjoy flying both fronts.
But however they do it, they need to do right by their customers and keep clod alive with the sequels, if not, I for one will be gone.

It's frustrating to see a game with so much potential lost & a community in such turmoil.

[csThor]

Originally Posted by Slipstream2012

What are good "new buyers" if they lose half of their current community because they released Clod too early to bad reviews, and have yet to patch the game to a suitable level in over a year, not to mention the lack of communication. All business depend on two types of customer, the new and the current, and word of mouth is the oldest but still most valid form of advertisement.
Now if the current customers are upset over a faulty product it doesn't take long for word to get around that a company should be avoided like the plague, especially on the internet, and even if their next product is the best thing on the planet there are going to be many that think "once bitten, twice shy"
Its about track record.

I was merely arguing against the misguided idea that "fixing CloD" would produce new buyers in a way that 1C (the mother corporation) would notice.
As for the rest: You are correct on reputation and all that. However, those at 1C (not at Maddox Games but above them) don't care. Either a design studio produces revenue or they'll be "restructured", reassigned to a potentially more profitable project or simply closed. The guys at Maddox Games would surely like to fix the mess (who likes leaving behind something that isn't up to specs?), but those who pay MG's wages don't think along these lines. For them it's merely $$$-€€€-£££, plain old money.

[Rattlehead]

...Really just seems more and more to me that we're being strung along until the bubble pops altogether.

Like many, I pre-ordered Clod to show support for the series, and 18 months later, after so much drama in the interim, this title is still half broken.

I can appreciate that the development team has been put in a difficult position and has probably been between a rock (IC Company) and a hard place (we the consumers) since the start, but at the end of the day, we have not got the product we paid for, end of story.

The tentative promise of further patches, provided we buy the next game, does not sit at all well with me. Isn't this promise of 'better' and 'fixes' been something we have put up with for 18 months already? And to be honest, what do we really have to show for it?

So forgive me please if I don't buy into further promises of patches and fixes hook, line and sinker. Those days are over, sorry to say, as are the days of me buying a product with 'IL-2' adorning the cover and expecting a classy, quality game. Those days are also over.

Now, everything that's said and promised is going to be met with a healthy dose of skepticism, and I certainly will not be buying anything this team puts out until I know for a fact that it's 100%.

Once bitten, twice shy and all that.

[Icebear]

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

Now, everything that's said and promised is going to be met with a healthy dose of skepticism, and I certainly will not be buying anything this team puts out until I know for a fact that it's 100%.

Once bitten, twice shy and all that.

+1

Hope that Luthier will read your posting and the all thread.

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

+1

I also agree with Rattlehead on this I will never again buy anything this crowd,releases either.

Regarding Luthiers message.......well,too little,too late,what a joke,the pr on this sim has been nothing but scant at best and again all these months later it would appear the only way they got this thing to stop the CTD's was too dumb everything down.

I think for me,the worst of it all,are the shite FM's,they are really crap,laughable.After all the work the members of this community put in,in handing 1C on a platter superb FM data,really precise,collated work,and you think too yourself......hang on,they have'nt even had the courtesy to even look at the damn stuff.

This was so evident in from the poor patches we received whenever they felt the urge to give us something in the way of a fix.

The writing was on the wall,there was enough guys on here sending in crash logs,faults and other problems with the thing,I'm sure we won't be the only ones who lost faith in this lot over the months since it's release.Good luck 1C.

Well I still think they could turn it around, If i thought for a minute my job was on the line I would be coming in at the weekends and offering my services for free to fix it, I'm sure the many multi skilled modders on here would lend a hand if only the Dev's could humble themselves enough to ask for help.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Well I still think they could turn it around, If i thought for a minute my job was on the line I would be coming in at the weekends and offering my services for free to fix it, I'm sure the many multi skilled modders on here would lend a hand if only the Dev's could humble themselves enough to ask for help.

How do you know thats not happening?

I am positive about today, I think there will be some news.

[salmo]

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

...Really just seems more and more to me that we're being strung along until the bubble pops altogether.

Like many, I pre-ordered Clod to show support for the series, and 18 months later, after so much drama in the interim, this title is still half broken.

I can appreciate that the development team has been put in a difficult position and has probably been between a rock (IC Company) and a hard place (we the consumers) since the start, but at the end of the day, we have not got the product we paid for, end of story.

The tentative promise of further patches, provided we buy the next game, does not sit at all well with me. Isn't this promise of 'better' and 'fixes' been something we have put up with for 18 months already? And to be honest, what do we really have to show for it?

So forgive me please if I don't buy into further promises of patches and fixes hook, line and sinker. Those days are over, sorry to say, as are the days of me buying a product with 'IL-2' adorning the cover and expecting a classy, quality game. Those days are also over.

Now, everything that's said and promised is going to be met with a healthy dose of skepticism, and I certainly will not be buying anything this team puts out until I know for a fact that it's 100%.

Once bitten, twice shy and all that.

Well said. And to highlight the disregard the publishers (Ubisoft) have for their customers, the official game website ( http://il2sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-o...ome/index.aspx ) STILL (after 18 months) contains false & misleading claims about the game. eg. "Join a 128-player jump-in/jump-out multiplayer mode where battles can last hours, days or even weeks." => not possible with the porked net code. Advanced physics – wind, lift, turbulences, rain, fog… => No working weather, no fog (never has been) & no rain (never has been). Hell, even B6 said that the weather was "not a supported feature" in the game. In most countries it's illegal to advertise product features that you know are not true.

[adonys]

so? sue them, and force them to make the code GPL to settle the class suit process.

then we can do it by ourselves

[Friendly_flyer]

I believe Luthier have no choice other than to follow the plan he has laid out. He does after all not pay his own wages. Whether this will be the right plan remains to be seen. I'm reserving any judgement until after the patch.