BETA PATCH v.1.08.18956 - August 3, 2012

[jf1981]

Originally Posted by Winger

The tell me what must be changed and please sum up under the line for example like this:

Increase levelspeed at all heights RESULTING IN Higher Topspeed at all heights as expected by the true figures, that is at least 290 mph SL and 350 TAS at 17'000 (ex. from Spit Mk I with normal boost of 6 1/4)

I really wonder what we will see afterwards. I am sure there stands something like this:

Increase RS RESULTING IN RS value per the historical datas

Increase TU RESULTING IN a realistic and historical TU value in particular above 17'000 ft and up to 30'000 ft

Increase VW RESULTING IN an accurate (and sustainable !) VW value that does'nt harm the engine after just 5 minutes (sik)

Increase XY RESULTING IN an historical and realistic XY value, obviously

Winger

Welcome

PS for your information, 109E and Spit Mk I are a match unlike the current state. I feel a turtle in the Sky, did'nt you notice the 109 dancing over British aircrafts ?
If you have a good and generally easy experience in a 109 versus Hurri and Spit, I do not doubt your qualities, but expect there are some other reasons underlying

[Winger]

Originally Posted by jf1981

Increase levelspeed at all heights RESULTING IN Higher Topspeed at all heights as expected by the true figures, that is at least 290 mph SL and 350 TAS at 17'000 (ex. from Spit Mk I with normal boost of 6 1/4)



Increase RS RESULTING IN RS value per the historical datas

Increase TU RESULTING IN a realistic and historical TU value in particular above 17'000 ft and up to 30'000 ft

Increase VW RESULTING IN an accurate (and sustainable !) VW value that does'nt harm the engine after just 5 minutes (sik)

Increase XY RESULTING IN an historical and realistic XY value, obviously


Welcome

PS for your information, 109E and Spit Mk I are a match unlike the current state. I feel a turtle in the Sky, did'nt you notice the 109 dancing over British aircrafts ?

When all Brits always start at Hawkinge with loads of 109s above them with tons of energy no wonder. Just start in in the NE at Ramsgate....

I had a fight against a spit yesterday. Close to ramsgate at almost even energylevels. I had a sligh advantage. We were "dancing" like 10-15 minutes in like 2,5-3km height. I could hardly get into good firing position and i am not the best shot there is. This spit did NOT AT ALL look to me as if it had any engineissues.
I went vertical after each attack and he avoided hoizontally each time. The Spitpilot certaily knew his way around. We fought until he got help from another spit. I had to run then since my fuel went empty.
There felt nothing wrong for me in this fight. Just like a fight in this height has too look if two experienced pilots face each other and one of them has a slight energyadvantage.

If he had only a little more enginepower he would have just outclimbed me while turning and avoiding my attacks leaving NO OPTION for me but to run. And i got the impression that THAT is what red pilots want.... And sorry, if that happens it comes VERY close to a "confirmed kill" button

Winger

PS: i the on the other had had a fight against a spit on the deck. I was diving after him. He realized i was there and pulled so hard on his stick into a loop with a diameter of like 100m. LOL i mean - is there any maneuver that bleeds more energy at once? Surely i had easy game with him since i went straight up conserving my energy to prepare the next slash. I am sure he thought his spit was totally underpowered when in reality he was just a *PEEEP* poor pilot.

[jf1981]

Originally Posted by Winger

And sorry, if that happens it comes VERY close to a "confirmed kill" buttonWinger

Dunno what this is actually.

One way with spit is or used to be in reducing the rpm and opening up the boost cutout, as the FM does'nt handle this case as harmul.
Now in 109, if you make gentle turns and use some particular tactics, it's possible to gain in energy and end up dive-zooming quite soon.
Nevertheless, all aircrafts should have their climb rate and level speed, dive speed, tuned correctly.
If, of course, you try following the Spit in his turns, you just would waste your energy and would get cought.

[Winger]

Originally Posted by jf1981

Dunno what this is actually.

One way with spit is or used to be in reducing the rpm and opening up the boost cutout, as the FM does'nt handle this case as harmul.
Now in 109, if you make gentle turns and use some particular tactics, it's possible to gain in energy and end up dive-zooming quite soon.
Nevertheless, all aircrafts should have their climb rate and level speed, dive speed, tuned correctly.
If, of course, you try following the Spit in his turns, you just would waste your energy and would get cought.

confirmed kill button is a sarcastic phrase by me. Sorry, i am German so its not easy to tell you what i mean with it. Something like this maybe?
Allies that want a better spit are for me like dogs that want bones with feet that carry them to the dog to be eaten.

Winger

[ATAG_Snapper]

Actually, the currently modelled Spitfires and Hurricanes are the bones being eaten. We want these bones to be able to jump almost as quickly, jump almost as high, and run almost as fast, as the dog itself. That said, we must accept that the bones will never be able to bite quite as hard or as long as the dog.

[Winger]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

Actually, the currently modelled Spitfires and Hurricanes are the bones being eaten. We want these bones to be able to jump almost as quickly, jump almost as high, and run almost as fast, as the dog itself. That said, we must accept that the bones will never be able to bite quite as hard or as long as the dog.

well, i guess we will see what the next patch brings. I would not wonder if the 109s are the bones not too far in the future.

Winger

[ATAG_Snapper]

Originally Posted by Winger

well, i guess we will see what the next patch brings. I would not wonder if the 109s are the bones not too far in the future.

Winger

I well understand you thinking that -- I've been one of the loudest whiners. But that is the farthest thing from what most of us Red-whiners want. (note that I said "most" )

As was mentioned earlier, the real 109 E-model and the Spitfire Mark I models were a close match; much closer than depicted currently in Cliffs of Dover. (There weren't many Spit IIa's in the BoB, and they only reached the squadrons towards the end. Plus they weren't a huge improvement in performance over the Ia).

Remember the IIa "über-Sissyfire" of the retail version (1.5950)? In actual numbers its performance wasn't far off what the actual Spitfire Ia (yes -- Ia) performance was -- at least at low/intermediate altitudes. The CoD 109's were (and still are) too slow in comparison. There are some strong concerns about the IIa über-Sissyfire's energy retention in hard maneuvring. I did some quick Immelmann turns and found that I lost almost exactly 100 mph doing each one -- this admittedly proves very little other than addressing a statement made that the Über-Sissyfire lost NO speed doing this maneuvre. That said, further testing needed to be done to verify that this aircraft's flight model was accurate (or needed adjustment as many believed).

In the few times I got to fly the IIa on the ATAG server (they were limited in number available and got snapped up quickly) I have to admit it was exhilarating to find myself not just matching a zoom climb of a formerly untouchable 109....but actually CLOSING on it to within convergence range!!! Zowie!!! That said, it was not rewarding in all honesty. It was an unfair advantage against the too-slow-modelled 109's. To make matters worse, there were many 109 experten who could still outfly and outshoot me to knock me out of the air in my superior aircraft -- which was embarassing.

It's got to be frustrating hearing us Red pilots whining after each patch. It's even more frustrating for us to anxiously await each patch then find the Spitfires have been borked further each time. I don't know where you got your information that each patch has made the Spitfires better and better, but you're dead wrong on that. As I said, they've been getting worse and worse with each patch. Obviously the devs have not been testing these aircraft, otherwise how could they account that in the earlier beta 100-octane Hurricanes couldn't even start online? Clearly they never even measured these patched Spits and Hurries for even basic performance since they glaringly are so very, very wrong! And clearly you haven't, either, to make the statements you have in this thread.

We want the Spitfires fixed. We want the Hurricanes fixed. We want the 109's fixed. And we want the 110's fixed. All of them, or it's no good.

[Stirwenn]

SpitIIa's FM as it is clearly show that an idiot can not fly this plane : constant eye looking over oil temp, water temp, rpm, boost and the blue over you in a badly six position.... i do not want a bone Winger, i just want to count 5 mns on full power as it should.
Personnal thinking : 109 is a bicycle for lazy guys !

[Baron]

Originally Posted by Stirwenn

SpitIIa's FM as it is clearly show that an idiot can not fly this plane : constant eye looking over oil temp, water temp, rpm, boost and the blue over you in a badly six position.... i do not want a bone Winger, i just want to count 5 mns on full power as it should.
Personnal thinking : 109 is a bicycle for lazy guys !

Dont blame the blue because german engineers focused on how to enable their fighter pilots to concentrate on shooting down enemy's, not nursing your plane so it doesn't brake when you need it the least.

You all wanted realism and you got it. And btw, 109 cant run flat out indefinitely either. If you do it wrong it will brake just as fast as the Spit. Last time i broke the engine well within the 5 min because i didn't pay attention. Dont know about the rest of you but personally i run with oil/water rads fully open 99% of the time and learn how to deal with that rather than the engine braking down, witch is even worse than losing top speed.
You could all ask the servers to turn off CEM entirely but then you wouldnt be cool anymore. (imo though, this CEM everyone is raving about is all but the same as IL2, it`s just made more complicated to use by forcing one to click this god da* cockpit dials and nobs when one needs to focus in more important things. (As far as i know we still cant assign vital functions to keys, can we? Isnt working for me at least ). The only differance imo is that you could do things for longer in IL2, run wep, on overheat etc. Remeber the "never ever overheating" spit in IL2 that was NEVER fixed?

Did a test on that thing way back and ran full out till the fuel tank was bone dry and all i got was a slight reduction in top speed. Funny times.

[jimbop]

Originally Posted by Baron

Dont blame the blue because german engineers focused on how to enable their fighter pilots to concentrate on shooting down enemy's, not nursing your plane so it doesn't brake when you need it the least.

You all wanted realism and you got it. And btw, 109 cant run flat out indefinitely either. If you do it wrong it will brake just as fast as the Spit. Last time i broke the engine well within the 5 min because i didn't pay attention.

You all could ask the servers to turn off CEM entirely but then you wouldnt be cool anymore.

How did you break a 109? Open rads, full throttle, keep the revs under the red line if e3 (don't even have to worry about that with e4). You will go until your fuel runs out.