The 'Great Debate' - Spitfire vs BF109

[Al Schlageter]

"After his last combat on the 26 September, Marseille was reportedly on the verge of collapse after a 15-minute battle with a formation of Spitfires, during which he scored his seventh victory of that day."

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

"After his last combat on the 26 September, Marseille was reportedly on the verge of collapse after a 15-minute battle with a formation of Spitfires, during which he scored his seventh victory of that day."

Oh okay, we're talking about different things, I guess.

[winny]

Here's what Geoff Wellum says about it (BoB veteran).

However, in a Spitfire, just before the stall, the whole aircraft judders, it’s a stall warning, if you like. With practice and experience you can hold the plane on this judder in a very tight turn. You never actually stall the aircraft and you don’t need to struggle to regain control because you never lose it.

[Crumpp]

However, in a Spitfire, just before the stall, the whole aircraft judders, it’s a stall warning, if you like. With practice and experience you can hold the plane on this judder in a very tight turn. You never actually stall the aircraft and you don’t need to struggle to regain control because you never lose it.

Forget physics....

You have disproved it right here!!

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Forget physics....

You have disproved it right here!!

By 'you', do you mean Mr. Wellum, actual Spitfire pilot during actual Battle of Britain?

[lane]

Originally Posted by winny

Here's what Geoff Wellum says about it (BoB veteran).

However, in a Spitfire, just before the stall, the whole aircraft judders, it’s a stall warning, if you like. With practice and experience you can hold the plane on this judder in a very tight turn. You never actually stall the aircraft and you don’t need to struggle to regain control because you never lose it.

That's disrespectful and outrageous. Mr. Wellum is still with us, last I heard. He flew Spitfires during the Battle of Britain and as One of the Few did his bit, to borrow from Churchill, to save the world from sinking "into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science." Perhaps that's the source of the disrespect?

[Crumpp]

By 'you', do you mean Mr. Wellum

Let's not turn it into something it is not. Apply some common sense please.

Winny posted that single remark out of context is the subject. Winny, who quoted Mr Wellum, does not understand that CG's move and aircraft change condition of flight.

I am sure Mr Wellum was absolutely right for the condition he is referring too. Just as I am sure the RAE, Operating Notes, NACA, and test pilots are correct for the conditions they measured.

All that proves is that you can have some longitudinal instability and still be faultless in a turn as well as easy to take off and land.

It also says that the Spit wasn't a very steady gun platform

Well the Germans did not take any measurements so it is just opinion.

IIRC, at normal and aft CG the aircraft is longitudinally unstable. Depending on the speed and by careful application, neutral stability could also produce "faultless turns" by careful flying.