To Oleg or Luthier: 4.09 / mods question

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by csThor

And, judging by the self-righteous attitude and the shoulder clapping I see in "The Dark Side Boards", I cannot help but agree with what proton45 said. There are enough folks over there who'd like to cultivate themselves a "Robin Hood" image and who consider Maddox Games part of the "evil big corporations" who dare to keep features from the "poor little flight simmer".

Another good point - Agreed 100%.

[LEXX]

Falke::

Another good point - Agreed 100%.

The "poor little flight simmer" csThor speaks of -- Oleg's paying customer -- seems to enjoy the hacked mods.

[csThor]

That's the image they cultivate Lexx - the "poor little fan" is nothing but the image of a victim that is forced to resort to "modding" because he's not getting stuff from the "big evil developer".

And don't generalize - I don't and won't ever use the macks. And I still consider myself an Il-2 fan

[Arrow]

I think that these so called "mods" are just a mess to ruin a stable running sim. Some of them have a lot of work invested in them and I respect that, but from sim compatibility point of view, they are just a mess - that noone of the modders really knows what issue their mods cause in the internal code. From that point of view it is just naive to expect Oleg to include this in his sim. As with all mods, you end up more fiddling with them than playing the game...Just my opinion..

[kapteeni]

[QUOTE=Bearcat;43751]The mods are not clandestine... they are being done in the open... and as I said.. there may be some not so good stuff in there.. but what I have seen and experienced has been well done and beneficial.. from the toned down dust to the toned down nav lights, the flyable AI AC... The way I see it.. if I could use Pe-8s to simulate B-17s in IL2... which we did.. then using B-25 cockpits for B-17s is not as much of a stretch... and while I still understand how many feel about the way the mods originally came about as I have said from day one.. and it has proven true. These mods are here.. and they aren't going anywhere.

Just for the record... I have tried the mods in case anyone failed to read between the lines.. and I am glad that I waited as long as I did.. I felt that I had to see how all this would pan out before i put my toe in that water... but I have sen no crocks, no fins floating in the water.... no little brown logs and no yellow water... so I jumped in and having tried them I have no regrets. I watched and read at the AAA site for months.. just to see where this was all going... and again.. as I said in this thread.. there has not been rampant cheating .. the sim is not "ruined" and frankly I think that the sim will actually benefit in the long run. There are still new folks coming to UBI every day.

+1
I think, that this game should be opened for modding legally. It would be moneywise too! Lots of people would buy if they could add new maps, buildings, vechiles and yes, even planes to it. What about official "Mod addon" with maptools, 3d converter?
Almost all the new games comes with somekind of possibility to add mods. It is not Filthy, it's progress.
We need open conversation about adding new things to this best flightsim ever. We can make it even better.

PS New maps looks great. Be sure

[LEXX]

csThor, as you are not the only FB fan, just be careful not to use sloganistic gamer webboard insults against non-modding FB fans who may enjoy mods made by modders.

[csThor]

Your previous post could be read in a way that you consider people opposing modding as non-fans.

But we both made our point. No need to dig deeper.

[LEXX]

Okay! No need to insult Oleg's "other" customers here.


Arrow::

I think that these so called "mods" are just a mess to ruin a stable running sim. Some of them have a lot of work invested in them and I respect that, but from sim compatibility point of view, they are just a mess - that noone of the modders really knows what issue their mods cause in the internal code. From that point of view it is just naive to expect Oleg to include this in his sim. As with all mods, you end up more fiddling with them than playing the game...Just my opinion..

My analogy is the Messy Sandwich. You can get a nice, well behaved "clean" sandwich at say...McDonalds, or a dripping mess sandwich at a real Italian or Polish Deli.

But you are right. You get what you pay for in time invested. Some are willing to spend the time tweaking to satisfy their historical interests, others are not. The tweaking required in this case is probably increased because of the unofficial or "hacked" nature of the modding methods. That, and the modding is still just starting out, in early discovery process so to speak.

Having started out with Oleg's FB as my first modern (Windows) sim, I used to make fun of other sims that required players to "downloading half the internets" to tweak a computer game, until I started a modding project in another sim that no sim developer has ever covered, and I had to download half the internets. But its worth it to put it all together and create something never done before.

[Arrow]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Okay! No need to insult Oleg's "other" customers here.


Arrow::
My analogy is the Messy Sandwich. You can get a nice, well behaved "clean" sandwich at say...McDonalds, or a dripping mess sandwich at a real Italian or Polish Deli.

But you are right. You get what you pay for in time invested. Some are willing to spend the time tweaking to satisfy their historical interests, others are not. The tweaking required in this case is probably increased because of the unofficial or "hacked" nature of the modding methods. That, and the modding is still just starting out, in early discovery process so to speak.

Having started out with Oleg's FB as my first modern (Windows) sim, I used to make fun of other sims that required players to "downloading half the internets" to tweak a computer game, until I started a modding project in another sim that no sim developer has ever covered, and I had to download half the internets. But its worth it to put it all together and create something never done before.

I get that ... I've also spent lot of time with modding, SF/WoV, Silent hunter, Falcon 4.0 - but in the end it always ended in always some tweaking, something was not working right, performance issues, than again reading forums and looking for answers and which mod is incompatible with which. Anyone who wants to do it and has time for it - can do it. But the point I wanted to illustrate was that Il2 alone should be kept as a clean finetuned running sim, which it already is.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by Arrow

I get that ... I've also spent lot of time with modding, SF/WoV, Silent hunter, Falcon 4.0 - but in the end it always ended in always some tweaking, something was not working right, performance issues, than again reading forums and looking for answers and which mod is incompatible with which. Anyone who wants to do it and has time for it - can do it. But the point I wanted to illustrate was that Il2 alone should be kept as a clean finetuned running sim, which it already is.

Well said. I personally don't miss anything with the original.

@ LEXX:

I agreed with csThors posts, because it says a lot about what is currently going on: As you can see with Bearcats statements, peoples minds change. It's no longer good vs evil, the unspeakables against brown-noses and the reason why you get in trouble when posting links to the mods is not because the mods are damned, but because the initial crack was and is illegal.

But while official sides remain silent, the so-called "brown-noses" made their decision or tend to test the mod sooner or later, the modding-community is still fighting loudly against windmills. And it IS just like csThor put it: This self-shoulder-padding of some people showing MG how easy it is to fix problems with IL2 (even on this board!) is just as misplaced as it is unfair. And this Rebellion against the evil Olegian Empire story is just ridiculous, sorry.

I've been active in the F4-modding-community for a long time, now, and though the modders did an awesome job making the game much better as it initially was, the idea of making the job better than the original programmers did themselves was new to me until this modding-thing with IL2 arose.