To Oleg or Luthier: 4.09 / mods question

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by DuxCorvan

My feelings and thoughts, exactly. My only objections to Il-2 mods comes from their unauthorized, clandestine nature.

The mods are not clandestine... they are being done in the open... and as I said.. there may be some not so good stuff in there.. but what I have seen and experienced has been well done and beneficial.. from the toned down dust to the toned down nav lights, the flyable AI AC... The way I see it.. if I could use Pe-8s to simulate B-17s in IL2... which we did.. then using B-25 cockpits for B-17s is not as much of a stretch... and while I still understand how many feel about the way the mods originally came about as I have said from day one.. and it has proven true. These mods are here.. and they aren't going anywhere.

Just for the record... I have tried the mods in case anyone failed to read between the lines.. and I am glad that I waited as long as I did.. I felt that I had to see how all this would pan out before i put my toe in that water... but I have sen no crocks, no fins floating in the water.... no little brown logs and no yellow water... so I jumped in and having tried them I have no regrets. I watched and read at the AAA site for months.. just to see where this was all going... and again.. as I said in this thread.. there has not been rampant cheating .. the sim is not "ruined" and frankly I think that the sim will actually benefit in the long run. There are still new folks coming to UBI every day.

Originally Posted by SlipBall

With all due respect, I think that you should consider resigning your moderator position over at ubi...condoning hacking is a no no for the staff

Well if you think I am the only mod who has tried the mods then you are.... naive.

Originally Posted by proton45

The "mods" would NEVER work as a legitimate update...
The only reason people put up with the limitations (and shortcomings) of the mods is because they are an "illegal" hacked mod. People like the idea of the mods because they feel like they are making an "end run" around the "official policy". People feel like the Robbin Hood feeling... people feel like they are giving (and getting) the fixes that (big, bad corporate) Oleg is not able (or is unwilling) to give the fine and loyal customer base.

If the mods where made official and included in a patch people who become much more critical of the work that has been done... people who expect Oleg and his people to "fix" the things that are not perfect with the mods...

Trust me, everyone will be much happier all around as long as the mods are kept "illegal"...
P.S. DON'T get me wrong... many of the mods look very professional, but as I read through the message boards you can read all types of problems that people have with various mod installs and such...and we all know that their are some people that just like to nit-pick and find fault...

I totally disagree with that. That statement is assuming the worse.. which the entire anti mod camp myself included at one time did. We assumed that because the sim was hacked that that spelled it's demise and we assumed that all the negative things about mods would be at the forefront and none of the positives... and yes... again... it was not official.. but if i said it once I have said it a thousand times... these mods are not going away ... and not only that... we were flat out wrong... the sky has not fallen in, the sim is not ruined... I am sure Olegs pocket is still getting fatter from 46... The current attitude is just as silly as not recognizing Israel's right to exist by some arab nations... IT EXISTS... and it isnt going anywhere.. and neither are these mods. The enhancements to the QMB, the new maps... that Italy Africa Greece map is a thing of beauty... To toally concentrate on the negatives of the whole issue.. and not the positives..... is naive IMO. Perhaps in 3 or 4 years or who knows 3 0r 4 months , widespread hacks will roam the virtual skies of 1946... and the sim will be ruined.. but it hasn't happened yet.. and frankly.... I will enjoy what I have..... all of it... and I have not taken any money out of Oleg's pocket... people talk about "stealing from the developer".. but I bought my sim... more times than many folks here......... It is a great sim.. still and it has been enhanced by these mods. That's a fact.... and it isn't because of any kind of psychobabble nonsense.. it is because some of those mods are just [really really good.... and we need to get past this.. and move on. Drink the kool aid.. or don't... but don't hate the pitcher.. because it ain't going away. I cant wait for BoB to come out.... I know it will be the best thing smoking.. but in the mean time I am going to enjoy all of 1946 that I can get.. and if another add ion on this engine were to come out.. I'd buy that too.... in the meantime. I am flying what is available to me now..... all of it that appeals to me..... as often as I can.

[Feuerfalke]

I agree that some of these mods are well done and a lot of hard work are put into them, yes.

I don't agree, though, that IL2, Oleg or MG will benefit from it and neither will they ever implement these changes officially. If it does happen against all odds, it means that Oleg officially abandoned his firstborn.

I also disagree that this crack hasn't stolen anything. It's not that they stole money from Oleg, lowered number of sales or anything, but for a lot of people it took away a lot of faith in the brand and in the ability of MG to react in a way to these mods, for example to ban them from certain servers. I've seen it with my own eyes, that these mods were in used on protected servers and I it is exactly what you, Bearcat, and I feared a while ago: It's not about the people who did the mods, it's about people who abuse it.

Besides that, we have to face another threat: While these mods become more popular, a lot of people already posted here and on UBI, what the deal is about BoB. There are a lot of people who think that with the new engine sounds and additional flyables, even their favorite planes, that BoB can't get any better, especially with the limited timescale and the limited number of planes compared to IL2. And on this end of the story, it does steal money away from Oleg, because BoB will have less appeal to people who primarily fly in the Pacific and modern planes like the P51 or Dora and why should they go for SoW, if IL2 seems to be realistic enough and appears to have a larger community working on mods to make it even better? Just look at this board, how many people directly attack Oleg because he didn't fix XY while it was so little effort to do so!
So the second direct effect it has for MG is to push the limits even further up. What that means in terms of delays and further anger of people using the mod or not, well, you know the comments as good as I do.


Don't get me wrong, I don't think the mods are bad and neither are those working on them, but it's not as easy as to say: The mods are good work and they make IL2 better, so they're perfectly alright. It will always be a two-edged sword.

[csThor]

BC ... you've gone a long way to a mack cheerleader. Why is it so hard to understand that Oleg can't and won't give them his blessing? Not going to happen so bringing up the point is just

a) pointless
b) prone to bring up the old discussions again

I don't think anyone here really believes that the macks are going to go away if they only pray enough, but these "Oleg please incorporate ..." posts aren't exactly helpful to board peace, either. They're just pointless.
And, judging by the self-righteous attitude and the shoulder clapping I see in "The Dark Side Boards", I cannot help but agree with what proton45 said. There are enough folks over there who'd like to cultivate themselves a "Robin Hood" image and who consider Maddox Games part of the "evil big corporations" who dare to keep features from the "poor little flight simmer".

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by csThor

And, judging by the self-righteous attitude and the shoulder clapping I see in "The Dark Side Boards", I cannot help but agree with what proton45 said. There are enough folks over there who'd like to cultivate themselves a "Robin Hood" image and who consider Maddox Games part of the "evil big corporations" who dare to keep features from the "poor little flight simmer".

Another good point - Agreed 100%.

[LEXX]

Falke::

Another good point - Agreed 100%.

The "poor little flight simmer" csThor speaks of -- Oleg's paying customer -- seems to enjoy the hacked mods.

[csThor]

That's the image they cultivate Lexx - the "poor little fan" is nothing but the image of a victim that is forced to resort to "modding" because he's not getting stuff from the "big evil developer".

And don't generalize - I don't and won't ever use the macks. And I still consider myself an Il-2 fan

[Arrow]

I think that these so called "mods" are just a mess to ruin a stable running sim. Some of them have a lot of work invested in them and I respect that, but from sim compatibility point of view, they are just a mess - that noone of the modders really knows what issue their mods cause in the internal code. From that point of view it is just naive to expect Oleg to include this in his sim. As with all mods, you end up more fiddling with them than playing the game...Just my opinion..

[LEXX]

csThor, as you are not the only FB fan, just be careful not to use sloganistic gamer webboard insults against non-modding FB fans who may enjoy mods made by modders.

[csThor]

Your previous post could be read in a way that you consider people opposing modding as non-fans.

But we both made our point. No need to dig deeper.

[LEXX]

Okay! No need to insult Oleg's "other" customers here.


Arrow::

I think that these so called "mods" are just a mess to ruin a stable running sim. Some of them have a lot of work invested in them and I respect that, but from sim compatibility point of view, they are just a mess - that noone of the modders really knows what issue their mods cause in the internal code. From that point of view it is just naive to expect Oleg to include this in his sim. As with all mods, you end up more fiddling with them than playing the game...Just my opinion..

My analogy is the Messy Sandwich. You can get a nice, well behaved "clean" sandwich at say...McDonalds, or a dripping mess sandwich at a real Italian or Polish Deli.

But you are right. You get what you pay for in time invested. Some are willing to spend the time tweaking to satisfy their historical interests, others are not. The tweaking required in this case is probably increased because of the unofficial or "hacked" nature of the modding methods. That, and the modding is still just starting out, in early discovery process so to speak.

Having started out with Oleg's FB as my first modern (Windows) sim, I used to make fun of other sims that required players to "downloading half the internets" to tweak a computer game, until I started a modding project in another sim that no sim developer has ever covered, and I had to download half the internets. But its worth it to put it all together and create something never done before.