First multiplayer experience - pretty bad

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by drewpee

LOL. Sorry mate I was taking the piss.

No need to apologise, I appreciated the humour!

Originally Posted by drewpee

I think it's always helpful for people to state their experiences with the game.

Well exactly and I more or less wanted to point out all the 'issues' that multiplayer has - before you even start flying - but in a more entertaining and narrative form and without being too negative. Given the experience was a bit disastrous and comedic, I thought it was a great way to vent my dismay too.

This game definitely needs more players and frankly I just wonder how any new players are going to be attracted to this game if its so hard to even get into a server?

Originally Posted by drewpee

I play exclusively online now(under the name Headshot). Some nights can be pretty ordinary other times it's a blast. I'm in WA and it usually doesn't start to get busy until late. I fly blue as a preference but I'll fly red when teams are too uneven. I can get my bum whipped equally well flying any AC but I like blue due to the easy to read metric instruments.

I prefer blue as well

As you say, easier to read the cockpit instruments and the 109 is just so nice to fly. But like you, I feel compelled to hop in any aircraft if it will even the game because ultimately online play is about having a great matchup. I even tried to fly the G.50 but after yet another engine failure I felt it best to stick with something I have confidence will get me into the air and do it in less than 20 minutes

Originally Posted by drewpee

The track recording issue is a bug as far as I know and will be sorted in the future.

I thought so. Its things like this that are just killing the fun though.

Originally Posted by drewpee

The next patch will be a game changer and will take even the vets down a peg or two until we learn the new flight models.
Any how I hope to see you online. There are some great blokes online and more and more Aussies are taking the plunge.
S!

I too have big hopes for the patch although I have my opinions on the lack of 100 octane aircraft. Although I don't mind the vet's skills - its why I want to play online! Its the technical issues even connecting (and that crash when flying in formation) that I want fixed.

I look forward to better online flying next time and meeting you online!


EDIT: I should mention though, on the topic of ATAG, that theres a LOT of positive things about the game generally and the ATAG/mission structures and servers specifically that I liked but didn't mention.

I was mighty impressed overall with the way the server would send ships, vehicles and aircraft about the place and assign you missions. With the potential of the engine to simulate ground vehicles etc, the multiplayer has HUGE potential.

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

You didn't mention if you were flying the ATAG Server, but it sounds like you may have been with the 300 ms ping -- our server is located in Chicago. A newcomer to the ATAG Server may well find the initial experience unfriendly -- even hostile.

I tried to get into a more local server first but it was locked out from having pressed 'break' so I went to ATAG and then Spits vs 109's. Servers themselves were great though (the ping was not an issue in practice), its the game generally that was the problem. I suspect the loss of connection wasnt the server's fault either.

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

As you found out, it's "Full Realism" -- meaning no icons, no outside views, cockpit-only (no "Wonder Woman" unrestricted view), Complex Engine Management, etc. One exception: anthromorphic controls are disabled due to some inherent problems with it.

I knew to expect that and i'd been playing like that offline in any case so this was a plus. I'm glad servers are taking full advantage of the spotting and CEM possibilities in CoD.

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

Another aspect to the ATAG Server that many newcomers with high hours in other game servers may find a little unsettling: very few rules. Obviously foul/obscene/abusive language or behaviour is not permitted over chat or the ATAG Teamspeak Server. Other than that, no deliberate shooting down of team mates (not to be confused with accidental friendly-fire incidents in the heat of combat). I think that's it.

Many servers have additional rules or understandings that there is to be no "vulching", shoulder shooting, no wheels-down shooting, team balancing expected, sportsmanlike behaviour expected, etc. etc. No such rules exist in the ATAG Server. If it could have happened in a real theatre of war -- so be it. Understandably, this can be a little unsettling (polite term for "pisser") for many coming from other servers -- so be it. . As a well known and much-loved (Cannes Festival -grade) video has said, "There's no licking in a dogfight!"

The lack of a tight mission structure and ability to just fly around is definitely a plus, as it allows you to jump in and learn online at your pace.

I also agree that having a 'whatever went in war' policy is great - I like the thrill of getting shot up anytime, anywhere like the real pilots and having to watch for strafing of my airfield, attacks on final etc. I don't mind having a good ol' force of numbers fight either with very unsportsmanlike odds.

But I do think that to get a good 'if it went in war' scenario you need plenty of players that are fairly well split, and I guess what concerned me was that the lack of 100 octane/high performing RAF planes seems to have resulted in unbalanced preferences for blue planes, leading to skewed teams. Fixing the underperforming RAF fighters would go a long way.

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

Some quick tips:

1) The are other Aussie pilots who fly Red on ATAG. PM me and I can hook you up.
2) Grab Teamspeak 3 (you may have it already). As you found, the "unsporting" (I prefer "dastardly" myself) Blue 109 pilots use comms to advantage. So do Reds!
3) Avoid coastal airfields (Hawkinge, Lympne, Manston, Ramsgate) for the time being. Spawn further inland (Rochester, Maidstone) which gives you the chance to grab some altitude as you fly eastward towards the combat zone.
4) How did Clint put it? "You gotta get mean.....junkyard dog-mean!"

Looking forward to flying with you online. I'd be proud to fly as your wingman. We could do some serious damage and definitely even up the score for you. Guaranteed the Blue team will be very timid about taking off when they see "Irrational and Snapper" on the Netstats scoreboard. Terrified, even.

Great tips! I'm actually a bit of a blue flier (prefer 109) too but given so many are, I think i'll be flying red online.

In this case the blues were over my field so I couldn't pick the fight, although I still got up without being noticed and jumped the 109.

Having watched the replay, to be honest I actually can't see whether it was the one 109 or whether another 109 was involved - I couldn't see any other 109's or even bullet tracers flying past my plane. I just suddenly died. If it was just the one though that would be very strange and likely related to the loss of connection, because when I died I was on its tail and chasing. It would be great to have a working external view in the replay to be able to check what happened

I will definitely grab teamspeak and get to know a few regulars to get more structured experience happening once I have familiarised myself with online play a bit more

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

Looking forward to flying with you online. I'd be proud to fly as your wingman. We could do some serious damage and definitely even up the score for you. Guaranteed the Blue team will be very timid about taking off when they see "Irrational and Snapper" on the Netstats scoreboard. Terrified, even.

I'd think at this point I would have to be the wingman Striking terror into the blue team sounds like a most entertaining activity for the evening. I need more gunnery practice (9% ave in offline) though.

[irR4tiOn4L]

Second experience = much better

Easy connect to Atag, more reds than blues! Took a 109 E1 up to 5000m and flew around between the two coasts trying to spot things. Definitely lots of work to do here.

Eventually, after a report of a Blenheim formation, I spot a formation and dive after it, but then lose sight of it. I do, however, spot two spits and promptly dive on the rearward spit. A nice high speed pass and single burst from 150-200m does the trick with a pilot kill and I zoom back up and proceed to thank my victim for my first online kill.

Course, I am so busy talking that I forget the wingman (rather, I thought they wouldnt be able to follow) and am promptly interrupted by a burst from behind. I break immediately and what follows can only be described as repeated dives, barrel rools, split-S's and other maneuvers to dodge my pursuer.

Eventually, I simply fly straight for what I think is the french coast in a high speed dive levelling out at sea level and eventually, although they get hits in (no damage) my pursuer seems to lose me. Except that the french coast turned out to be English.

I begin an ascent, thinking id lost my pursuer, and cut back on the throttle to 80% or so, beginning a climb. Nothing much seems to happen all the way up to 3000m or so and my six seems clear. Something must have spotted or followed me, however, as I am suddenly ambushed by a massive volley that hits my pilot and makes the entire screen a bright red.

I immediately dive straight for the ocean and the correct coast, keeping up high speed (looks like 500 or so) in the hope of outrunning my pursuers. Which I seem to do, for a little while, before another burst and a spitfire roars overhead.

Thinking that my plane is either losing performance or I am at a big E disadvantage, I loop round and pursue the spit, which is heading away from me at this point. I soon lose it in maneuvering, however, and my engine cuts out.

I crash land near a castle safely as the sound of another aircraft's engine roars nearby - and a spit IIa AI crash message appears in the listing - could this have been an AI spit IIa?

Either way, I won't find out till I can view outside views in the track At least I survived, though heavily injured, and got a kill!

Lessons for the day;

the server was set to dusk and on my 22" CRT I had great trouble spotting anything, and often lost targets. Spotting needs work. Even my victim said they had spotted me first but then lost me. After engaging the spits near the blenheim formation I was consistently being ambushed.

I am probably not flying to the strengths of the 109 - although I go vertical as often as I can, I had trouble shaking that one pursuer. Flying and gunnery were probably ok though.

I need to install teamspeak I was flying totally alone and deaf out there, and I suspect that makes a large difference in a server with 8 a side.

All in all, that was the most fun I've had with the game for sure. It was also the most, in my mind, accurate and confronting portrayal of how intense, dangerous, confusing and difficult A2A combat could probably be in WWII. I was always in doubt as to whether there were aircraft I had not spotted around me, who had seen me, how many aircraft were attacking or following me and after getting my pilot hit, navigation was doubtful at best, following, let alone fighting targets was impossible and everything was a blur. The whole experience was not even dented by the connection loss after the mission restarted.

Thoroughly enjoyable all round!


EDIT: After reviewing the replay, I believe I was being followed by a pair of AI spits (they held tight formation). I didn't check my six long and well enough, because the spits were clearly visible on my tail at least 2 or 3 times and I missed them. By slowing to 70% throttle or so and climbing, the spits had a chance to catch me, which they did, and in their first burst, although I broke right very quickly, they hit my pilot.

So moral of the story - check six longer and better and never chop throttle more than absolutely necessary over enemy territory.

[ATAG_Colander]

irR4tiOn4L,

I'm glad your second time on the ATAG server was more enjoyable.
As you noticed, the red/blue balance changes depending of the time of day.

As for spotting in the dark, yes, is a LOT harder and usually easier from bellow which is how I suspect you where bounced. Also, as you noticed, this makes B&Z very complicated.

There are no AI fighters on the current ATAG missions, and as you also noticed, the plane set varies depending on the mission that is currently running on the server's rotation. I suspect you where bounced by 2 spits flying together with the help of teamspeak.

Anyway, I hope to see you in TS soon, although I'm in Texas so our time windows might not overlap.

~S~
ATAG_Colander

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander

irR4tiOn4L,

I'm glad your second time on the ATAG server was more enjoyable.
As you noticed, the red/blue balance changes depending of the time of day.

Thanks Colander, it's a lot of fun when there's no technical issues and you're right, red/blue definitely changes with time of day and the number of players.

Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander

As for spotting in the dark, yes, is a LOT harder and usually easier from bellow which is how I suspect you where bounced. Also, as you noticed, this makes B&Z very complicated.

It is indeed a LOT harder, and I suspect harder still given that I am using a CRT which tend to have very dark blacks. Spotting a series of black dots/shapes against a dark blue background on a dark monitor is a challenge to say the least, but I also suspect its about practice spotting which I lack, given that offline missions tend to be much more straightforward.

Boom and Zoom is more complicated but altitude is still king I would say. I was only attacked after diving on that spit and losing E, and after escaping, if I had kept up my throttle and speed while climbing I would never have been caught by those pursuing spits! I was forced to crash land because I did not maintain the highest combined speed and rate of climb I could and did not do a good enough job of checking six.

Here's a shot of my first online kill btw, gained in that session - a single B&Z pass.

Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander

There are no AI fighters on the current ATAG missions, and as you also noticed, the plane set varies depending on the mission that is currently running on the server's rotation. I suspect you where bounced by 2 spits flying together with the help of teamspeak.

Initially I thought so too, but after watching the replay, I just don't know. They seemed to act like AI - they flew in tight formation INTO the attack, hosed with their gunfire and pursued me for a long time. More importantly, however, I saw lots of messages about "Spit Ia (AI)" crashed/shot down, etc. Heres a screenshot of me crash landing, with a message appearing about a Spit IIa crash (AI following me too closely?). As you can see my view was not good, but the server seemed to have AI fighters. This is why I am rather confused.



Although then again, shortly before crash landing a player reported "109 over manston" which was yours truly of course, so I must have flown into the hornet's nest. Perhaps I was indeed being hunted by 2-3 spits I suppose I got off lightly!

[Jatta Raso]

blues will sell you that 109s are the best fighters but when it comes to 1vs1 the spit can hold the upper hand if you don't make mistakes... it's turning ability isn't matched as has no easy counter, IMO the well flown spit has more chance of holding an indefinite ping pong with an +/- equal E foe until you can get an opening window to fire effectively

mind that as in many cases any advantage may have its own disadvantage, flying the spit meaning its turn rate; turn too tight at low deck and you'll stall or drop to slug speed, turn too tight at high speed and you'll black out (the more skilled 109s will infamously try to exploit their apparent G effect immunity).

anyway glad to see you're progressing on this rather unforgiving CLoD online experience; if with just a few sorties you've accumulated at least this experience, you may be inbound to do rather well. happy flying maybe we'll cross over the channel.. on a Spit Ia

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by Jatta Raso

blues will sell you that 109s are the best fighters but when it comes to 1vs1 the spit can hold the upper hand if you don't make mistakes... it's turning ability isn't matched as has no easy counter, IMO the well flown spit has more chance of holding an indefinite ping pong with an +/- equal E foe until you can get an opening window to fire effectively

mind that as in many cases any advantage may have its own disadvantage, flying the spit meaning its turn rate; turn too tight at low deck and you'll stall or drop to slug speed, turn too tight at high speed and you'll black out (the more skilled 109s will infamously try to exploit their apparent G effect immunity).

anyway glad to see you're progressing on this rather unforgiving CLoD online experience; if with just a few sorties you've accumulated at least this experience, you may be inbound to do rather well. happy flying maybe we'll cross over the channel.. on a Spit Ia

I like both.

My sentiments are actually quite close to yours. I never 'got' the FW190 for example in IL2 (apart from looks - very nice bird!). People talked about its B&Z potential, its performance and armament and inevitably quipped that any mistake was down to getting too low and slow, but in my hands it felt like a brick that had a single advantage which, if lost, left it a rather unrounded and ungainly fighter.

And as you say, maneuvering superiority is a more enduring strength than performance and speed which is often lost to the next series of these aircraft. You can't always rely on your given 109 being faster than a given spit, but you can generally rely on your given spit being more maneuverable than a given 109. The same applies in extremis for planes like the Zero, which even as late as 44 in the hands of a pilot like Sakai could fend of 16 to 1 odds. Being stuck in a more maneuverable aircraft that is outperformed by another is, imho, better than being stuck in a less maneuverable aircraft that has lost its performance advantage.

Having said that, its hard to go past the 109's speed and performance advantage in CLoD (no 100 octane!), although i'd say the Spitfire proved the better series in WWII. It allows you to fly with confidence knowing that nothing can follow and you can escape uneven odds. I would have got away in this example if I had used this advantage and not throttled back, which means I would have effectively prevailed over uneven odds.

When you are stuck in a 1v1, a spit is probably better. It can make itself a difficult target and last a long time (although so can the 109 if it uses its roll rate and vertical maneuvers). But the big disadvantage there is that you have no way to run, and no way to catch your opponent if he does. You cannot dictate terms, which should never be understated.

I also do not appreciate the limited armament of the spits/hurris - the run out of ammo far too quickly for a protracted fight. While the cannons on the 109 do too, and 2 machine guns may not be much, being able to fire them for a minute is a big plus imho. I haven't checked how much ammo the E1 has, but being all machine gun, this ability to stay in the fight is a plus for me.


All in all I think they are great planes but the 109 is a better hunter, able to operate independently with near impunity. But I think back to Sakai talking about the Wildcat that almost shot his zero down in 1v1 - either of these planes can be used to great effect with the right flying.

Personally I will just fly whichever side has fewer players on the server.

[ATAG_Colander]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

I saw lots of messages about "Spit Ia (AI)" crashed/shot down, etc. Heres a screenshot of me crash landing, with a message appearing about a Spit IIa crash (AI following me too closely?). As you can see my view was not good, but the server seemed to have AI fighters. This is why I am rather confused.

irR4tiOn4L,

I understand your confusion....
What you are seeing are the messages of real people fighters (there are AI bombers but not fighters) that bailed out. From that point forward, the game considers the plane an AI as there is no one piloting them.

Colander.

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander

irR4tiOn4L,

I understand your confusion....
What you are seeing are the messages of real people fighters (there are AI bombers but not fighters) that bailed out. From that point forward, the game considers the plane an AI as there is no one piloting them.

Colander.

Ah! That makes sense!

In that case I have to hand it to my pursuers, they sure were persistent!

[alphasephirot]

Hey Irrational!! i´m the pilot of that poor spit xD

Glad you are having a good time, i´m looking forward for my revenge hehehe.

You did it pretty good i have to say, i usually never stop checking my 6 and everything around me but when i first lost you i though that you disengaged because you were outnumbered and got relaxed. Bad situational awareness by my part; good job by yours.

Sorry about my english! bye!