Target visibility

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Ffs

I can only assume that means you just realised what I was trying to tell you all along.

In order to be able to see aircraft as easily as a real pilot, we need to try and match as closely as possible the perspective that they have on a very imperfect medium - our monitor.

The easiest and probably best way to do this is to simply switch between a wider, more standard 'gaming' field of view setting that is actually very wide, to a much more 'zoomed in' perspective, perhaps to the point of a 1:1 'optically correct' view. At this 1:1 optically correct view, we see what little is in our view, including distant aircraft, as closely as possible to the dimensions with which they appear to our eyes in reality, but we do so at the expense of situational awareness and a wide view (ie, tunnel vision).

By combining these two views and scanning while switching between them, we are able as realistically as possible scan the sky and spot distant aircraft without the aid of a much larger monitor or sitting much closer to it.

Hence why I recommend it, and posit that it is in no way cheating. And YES, some people DO have trouble seeing the dots, more so than others - it all depends on your screen size, resolution, viewing distance etc.


Here is a very useful formula for working out, according to valve, your 'optically correct perspective'.

FOV = ((((screenwidth/viewer distance)/2)tan-1)2)

By use of this formula you will be able to get the FOV, for your viewing environment, that best allows you to approximate the acuity of our eyes in a real aircraft, abeit for only a small patch of sky.

In my case this works out to roughly 22 degrees, making 30 and 70 FOV good compromise values to switch between.

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Trolling no, seeing another "the dots are too small and too hard to track, so lets make them bigger" thread - yes

Trolling was the better option out of the two I had in mind.

And again, which just highlights what a douchebag you really are, I never said anything about increasing dot sizes nor do I support it.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

And again, which just highlights what a douchebag you really are, I never said anything about increasing dot sizes nor do I support it.

increasing dot size is an unavoidable part of your myopic, dizzyness inducing narrow FoV.
The whole "photography/ 1:1 thing is just an underhanded way of achieving that enlargement of dots

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

Hence why we need to switch to a smaller FOV in order to spot aircraft as easily as in reality.

reality doesn't exist of a very narrow FoV......

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

increasing dot size is an unavoidable part of your myopic, dizzyness inducing narrow FoV.
The whole "photography/ 1:1 thing is just an underhanded way of achieving that enlargement of dots

Come on out, agenda, nice to see you in the light! So you WERE trolling then. You seem most aware of exactly what I meant.

So would you support clamping down on monitors larger than 20 inches or using lower resolutions too, because it is an 'underhand' way of increasing dot sizes?

70/90 fov simply does not allow for realistic spotting of aircraft at realistic distances.

Since 30 fov is much closer to realistic visual acuity, it is what I will continue to use, whether you like it or not, to simulate as closely as possible the distance at which a pilot would be able to spot another aircraft.

And, unlike changing dot sizes, it does not hinder your game.

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

reality doesn't exist of a very narrow FoV......

But it DOES exist with much higher visual acuity, leaving me with the job of choosing either a wide field of view for realistic situational awareness or narrow field of view for realistic visual acuity, BOTH of which are absolutely crucial to a real pilot.

And that choice is down to me, not you.

By the way, you are missing the most valuable part of this, which is it doesnt actually increase DOT sizes - your screen resolution remains the same, and if an aircraft is so far away that it appears as a dot, it will STILL be just as small a dot.

What decreasing FOV actually does is make many aircraft that would be very small models or dots still appear as models - meaning you have to keep searching with all the usual factors, like camouflage, heading and reflectiveness, still affecting your ability to spot the aircraft. This makes for a MUCH more realistic portrayal of spotting very distant aircraft than simply looking for tiny dots.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

70/90 fov simply does not allow for realistic spotting of aircraft at realistic distances.


And, unlike changing dot sizes, it does not hinder your game.

Actually, its your agenda which has ben shown up... and you said yourself the narrower FoV does change dot size

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Actually, its your agenda which has ben shown up... and you said yourself the narrower FoV does change dot size

What's that - that I wish to use two different FOVs to simulate realistic visual acuity and aid in spotting aircraft?

I thought I made that pretty clear!

And no, narrower FOV does not make 'dots' bigger. It makes those aircraft that would otherwise be 'dots' still appear as aircraft models, making it more realistic (and easier) to spot them.

A 'dot' is still a dot (ie pixel), except now it might not appear until 5 or 6km instead of just 3 or so.

And lastly, and I can't overstate this, at the end of the day that really is how big and easy aircraft are to spot for real pilots. Why should I be squinting and straining my eyes to spot things that would be immediately obvious to my eyes in reality? That's not simulation, that's analism for the sake of hyper competitive online afficianados. I can spot BIRDS in general aviation more easily than aircraft in this "simulation"!

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

And no, narrower FOV does not make 'dots' bigger. It makes those aircraft that would otherwise be 'dots' still appear as aircraft models, making it more realistic (and easier) to spot them.

A 'dot' is still a dot (ie pixel), except now it might not appear until 5 or 6km instead of just 3 or so.

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

It probably isn't all that important a point though since the size in pixels of an aircraft is larger with a smaller FOV anyway, and all that will happen is that we lose a small amount of model detail (no biggie).

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

And lastly, and I can't overstate this, at the end of the day that really is how big and easy aircraft are to spot for real pilots.

and there it is again... bigger and easier




and some more...

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

So would you support clamping down on monitors larger than 20 inches or using lower resolutions too, because it is an 'underhand' way of increasing dot sizes?

yes,
its a very underhanded cheat and I pity them

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

What decreasing FOV actually does is make many aircraft that would be very small models or dots still appear as models -

MUCH more realistic portrayal of spotting very distant aircraft than simply looking for tiny dots.

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

and there it is again... bigger and easier

And REALISTIC!

What's your deal anyway? Why does this bother you? (not like I don't already know)

Plus, I thought you know what I was saying ALL ALONG? OR did you JUST figure this out?

I have been advocating the use of alternating narrow and wider fovs in order to make spotting aircraft EASIER with my very first comment in this thread. Albeit I proved that this is actually more realistic. What on earth did you think I was talking about all this for - to make spotting aircraft HARDER? Would that be more realistic in your warped view?


Finally - tell me, how big is your monitor, what is it's resolution and how far away do you sit from it? Do you use track ir, do you change FOV's to 'zoom in' (which Btw YOU YOURSELF advocated earlier!)?

All those things can give you a big edge over other players, and in a sense mandate others to do the same. But it would not be sensible to say that they should not be part of the sim. If that is what you are concerned about in the first place.

For my part, I don't even play online, although I most certainly WOULD use 30 fov to zoom in if I did.