To All You COOP LOVERS!!!

[furbs]

In world war 2, a mission generally went like this...

The squadron would be given a brief, note the waypoints, height and loadout.
Then they would take off as a squadron, follow their leader to the target or area(to CAP), or meet the bombers if on a escort mission.

They would try to complete the mission and return to base.

A COOP mission tries to simulate this as close as possible.

This is what we want for CLOD.

Doc, i get it you dont want to fly COOP's but others do.
DFS have there place, i enjoy the ATAG server when i fly there, but i also want to fly COOP's.

Can you understand that?

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by furbs

In world war 2, a mission generally went like this...

The squadron would be given a brief, note the waypoints, height and loadout.
Then they would take off as a squadron, follow their leader to the target or area(to CAP), or meet the bombers if on a escort mission.

They would try to complete the mission and return to base.

A COOP mission tries to simulate this as close as possible.

This is what we want for CLOD.

Doc, i get it you dont want to fly COOP's but others do.
DFS have there place, i enjoy the ATAG server when i fly there, but i also want to fly COOP's.

Can you understand that?

No no no no please don't misunderstand me. This sounds cool to me it does sounds like fun. But I just want to know is there a condition where you have to all start at the same time and is the mission locked? I mean you cannot join if its already in progress? And if it isn't locked can I do whatever I want?

P.S. Ok so I finally connect the dots and DFS is dog fight server. So I think I am understanding you more. I just want an answer to my questions above.

[SlipBall]

Locked I'm sure once it starts...plus you may need to be in a squad

[Thee_oddball]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Doc

No no no no please don't misunderstand me. This sounds cool to me it does sounds like fun. But I just want to know is there a condition where you have to all start at the same time and is the mission locked? I mean you cannot join if its already in progress? And if it isn't locked can I do whatever I want?

P.S. Ok so I finally connect the dots and DFS is dog fight server. So I think I am understanding you more. I just want an answer to my questions above.

once COOP starts mission is locked.

p.s it can be player VS player VS AI

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by Thee_oddball

once COOP starts mission is locked.

p.s it can be player VS player VS AI

Man I don't know if I like that idea. But I understand how squads would like it and desire it. I totally can see that. But we can only be as real as what it is.

I tend to do work from home sometimes and I literally have to make time for this and I do. I'd be very turned off if I opened a beer and settled my butt into my chair and tried to get in some airtime only to find out the server is locked.

But this is where I part ways with the whole idea of coops. I'm not against the game having it. I just want to be able to sleep late and join up when I am ready and not when others are. I'm kinda lazy.

[JG53_Valantine]

Doc,

The main thing for Co-ops is taht it sets everything up and starts everyone at the same time: not great for ATAG as ATAG is a dogfight server: even if it has missions / objectives and teamwork it is still an old IL2 styled Dogfight server game-mode wise. (admittedly with AI spawns etc. although modded IL2 46 had this with the Moving Dogfight Server stuff)

Co-Ops on the other hand are missions where X number of pilots join the mission at the same time: select their aircraft, loadouts and read the breifing before the host then hits "start" everyone is started where they aircraft they selected was palced: be it in the air or on the ground. This is a CO-OP server and can be either human vs human or human vs AI or a mixture of both on each side. They are extremely useful for Co-Op squads and were a very popular part of the old IL2 mix that is sorely lacking in CloD. Both Dogfight servers and Co-op servers have their advantages and disadvantages, however to not have that option is really a reversal of many years of progress in lots of people's eyes.

Sometimes you WANT everyone to be in the mission and "starting" at the same time, exactly where you placed their aircraft: these tend to be pre-organised things either on a squad level, online war level or even just a historical scenario (Take the 633 mossie mission that ran on hyperlobby frequently: NOW THAT was great fun and a fully co-operative experience that simply wouldn't work on the dogfight map) - Dogfight maps are great for those who want to jump on when they can: be it for a bit of "air-quake fly/gun/die/rinse & repeat stuff" or for an objective based "mission" but very poor for other things like a co-ordinated start, historical missions, co-op squadrons etc.

Sure: keep the dogfight server in CloD the way it is (as in IL2 46 MDS Moving Dogfight Server) but give us a proper Co-Op interface as well: it's not as if we are asking for all online experiences to be Co-Op only - we just want the option we used to have without spending hours messing around with scripting before we can even get missions in - time is limited for lots of us as it is.

So adding Co-Ops isn't "a step abckwards" in any shape or form: it is just giving us more options for us to enjoy the online experience.
V

Doc,

to add in: it really may help if you pick up a copy of IL2 46 and just spend an hour or two playing about with the co-op mode and you'll understand it. Trying to explain it is a little like trying to explain how the combustion engine works to an uncontacted tribesman: no matter how much you say it's like, or it does it is doubtful they will get the full picture.
V

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by JG53_Valantine

Doc,

The main thing for Co-ops is taht it sets everything up and starts everyone at the same time: not great for ATAG as ATAG is a dogfight server: even if it has missions / objectives and teamwork it is still an old IL2 styled Dogfight server game-mode wise. (admittedly with AI spawns etc. although modded IL2 46 had this with the Moving Dogfight Server stuff)

Co-Ops on the other hand are missions where X number of pilots join the mission at the same time: select their aircraft, loadouts and read the breifing before the host then hits "start" everyone is started where they aircraft they selected was palced: be it in the air or on the ground. This is a CO-OP server and can be either human vs human or human vs AI or a mixture of both on each side. They are extremely useful for Co-Op squads and were a very popular part of the old IL2 mix that is sorely lacking in CloD. Both Dogfight servers and Co-op servers have their advantages and disadvantages, however to not have that option is really a reversal of many years of progress in lots of people's eyes.

Sometimes you WANT everyone to be in the mission and "starting" at the same time, exactly where you placed their aircraft: these tend to be pre-organised things either on a squad level, online war level or even just a historical scenario (Take the 633 mossie mission that ran on hyperlobby frequently: NOW THAT was great fun and a fully co-operative experience that simply wouldn't work on the dogfight map) - Dogfight maps are great for those who want to jump on when they can: be it for a bit of "air-quake fly/gun/die/rinse & repeat stuff" or for an objective based "mission" but very poor for other things like a co-ordinated start, historical missions, co-op squadrons etc.

Sure: keep the dogfight server in CloD the way it is (as in IL2 46 MDS Moving Dogfight Server) but give us a proper Co-Op interface as well: it's not as if we are asking for all online experiences to be Co-Op only - we just want the option we used to have without spending hours messing around with scripting before we can even get missions in - time is limited for lots of us as it is.

So adding Co-Ops isn't "a step abckwards" in any shape or form: it is just giving us more options for us to enjoy the online experience.
V

Doc,

to add in: it really may help if you pick up a copy of IL2 46 and just spend an hour or two playing about with the co-op mode and you'll understand it. Trying to explain it is a little like trying to explain how the combustion engine works to an uncontacted tribesman: no matter how much you say it's like, or it does it is doubtful they will get the full picture.
V

Now THIS is what I was talking about. A very clear concise answer.

Valantine I actually have a copy of 1946 I got it after finding out all about this ww2 siming but I couldn't get it to work - and I had it only maybe a few days before I was able to download this.

I know you got to patch it up but I got cod as soon as it came out and I have not done anything else. I was told and am afraid I would be sorta disappointed with it since this is all I have ever done.

I did see a nice mod for it in a video from Bliss for it I think it was F-86 and Mig-17's that looked really sweet to.

Seriously thanks for the good explanation.

[JG53_Valantine]

No problems at all Doc! I run II./JG53 (a Co-Op squadron which has been around for quite a few years now) so we have used Il2 through various versions including the new CloD engine so have a bit of experience with it all.

Right now we are having to "fake" co-ops by having the host machine host a lobby game in dogfight mode, then all join and get on the "waiting for battle screen", then get the host machine to begin battle, then we all select the homeairbase, aircraft and loadout and spawn in within a few seconds of each other. We are then geared up to be all together for take off at teh same time but this is simply a rough workaround we are making do with until we hopefully get a proepr Co-op GUI as this is far from ideal for our purposes.

Anyhow, I'm a fan of both online modes, they just have different strengths and weaknesses and are better suited to different purposes: the minute we can get back to having that option the better I think the overall multipalyer experience will be for everyone.
V

[furbs]

Originally Posted by JG53_Valantine

Doc,

The main thing for Co-ops is taht it sets everything up and starts everyone at the same time: not great for ATAG as ATAG is a dogfight server: even if it has missions / objectives and teamwork it is still an old IL2 styled Dogfight server game-mode wise. (admittedly with AI spawns etc. although modded IL2 46 had this with the Moving Dogfight Server stuff)

Co-Ops on the other hand are missions where X number of pilots join the mission at the same time: select their aircraft, loadouts and read the breifing before the host then hits "start" everyone is started where they aircraft they selected was palced: be it in the air or on the ground. This is a CO-OP server and can be either human vs human or human vs AI or a mixture of both on each side. They are extremely useful for Co-Op squads and were a very popular part of the old IL2 mix that is sorely lacking in CloD. Both Dogfight servers and Co-op servers have their advantages and disadvantages, however to not have that option is really a reversal of many years of progress in lots of people's eyes.

Sometimes you WANT everyone to be in the mission and "starting" at the same time, exactly where you placed their aircraft: these tend to be pre-organised things either on a squad level, online war level or even just a historical scenario (Take the 633 mossie mission that ran on hyperlobby frequently: NOW THAT was great fun and a fully co-operative experience that simply wouldn't work on the dogfight map) - Dogfight maps are great for those who want to jump on when they can: be it for a bit of "air-quake fly/gun/die/rinse & repeat stuff" or for an objective based "mission" but very poor for other things like a co-ordinated start, historical missions, co-op squadrons etc.

Sure: keep the dogfight server in CloD the way it is (as in IL2 46 MDS Moving Dogfight Server) but give us a proper Co-Op interface as well: it's not as if we are asking for all online experiences to be Co-Op only - we just want the option we used to have without spending hours messing around with scripting before we can even get missions in - time is limited for lots of us as it is.

So adding Co-Ops isn't "a step abckwards" in any shape or form: it is just giving us more options for us to enjoy the online experience.
V

Doc,

to add in: it really may help if you pick up a copy of IL2 46 and just spend an hour or two playing about with the co-op mode and you'll understand it. Trying to explain it is a little like trying to explain how the combustion engine works to an uncontacted tribesman: no matter how much you say it's like, or it does it is doubtful they will get the full picture.
V

Perfect description. well done.

[furbs]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Doc

No no no no please don't misunderstand me. This sounds cool to me it does sounds like fun. But I just want to know is there a condition where you have to all start at the same time and is the mission locked? I mean you cannot join if its already in progress? And if it isn't locked can I do whatever I want?

P.S. Ok so I finally connect the dots and DFS is dog fight server. So I think I am understanding you more. I just want an answer to my questions above.

COOP's are locked, they had up to 16 vs 16 pilots plus other AI flights.

Think of a COOP as a set piece battle between 2 squads plus AI.
Or think of all the pilots on ATAG starting at the same time and flying a sortie as squadrons together.