Friday Update, April 13, 2012

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Followed by:
Martin77 posted real pilots' personal opinions while what you posted is an example of how information can be manipulated..

you've missed the point on how to grade the value of "first hand" pilot information somewhere between high skool and your first year of college. you'r locked into the false perception that "he-said" "she-said" has any meaning here.

in most sciences that is graded as anecdotal information, and basically meaningless to counter either expert opinion or objective factual evidence of any properly conducted scientific evaluation. hence i countered the previous posters quotes with an expert who's value both sides of the argument could respect, and quoted a broad statement from him on the matter. its easy enough to give quotes from brittish pilots stating the exact opposite of the german pilots he quoted (and they are easily available, and several already quoted in this thread), but has less value.

on the other hand, if you can come up with some german or allied comparisons of both of these aircraft, then this would have meaning (and both german and allied comparison of the same aircraft can be compared)

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by zapatista

you've missed the point on how to grade the value of "first hand" pilot information somewhere between high skool and your first year of college. you'r locked into the false perception that "he-said" "she-said" has any meaning here.

in most sciences that is graded as anecdotal information, and basically meaningless to counter either expert opinion or objective factual evidence of any properly conducted scientific evaluation. hence i countered the previous posters quotes with an expert who's value both sides of the argument could respect, and quoted a broad statement from him on the matter. its easy enough to give quotes from brittish pilots stating the exact opposite of the german pilots he quoted (and they are easily available, and several already quoted in this thread), but has less value.

on the other hand, if you can come up with some german or allied comparisons of both of these aircraft, then this would have meaning (and both german and allied comparison of the same aircraft can be compared)

Agreed 100%

Something I have been saying for years.. Only not as well as you just said it!

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by zapatista

you've missed the point on how to grade the value of "first hand" pilot information somewhere between high skool and your first year of college. you'r locked into the false perception that "he-said" "she-said" has any meaning here.

in most sciences that is graded as anecdotal information, and basically meaningless to counter either expert opinion or objective factual evidence of any properly conducted scientific evaluation. hence i countered the previous posters quotes with an expert who's value both sides of the argument could respect, and quoted a broad statement from him on the matter. its easy enough to give quotes from brittish pilots stating the exact opposite of the german pilots he quoted (and they are easily available, and several already quoted in this thread), but has less value.

on the other hand, if you can come up with some german or allied comparisons of both of these aircraft, then this would have meaning (and both german and allied comparison of the same aircraft can be compared)

I totally missed your point there. My fault!

I'm so pissed of that Galland's quote that's usually used as proof...

Originally Posted by zapatista

lol, so the sumtotal of your contribution in a debate exchanging information on 109 and spitfire performance is, "the brave one wins", "'cause you and your bestest friend did it that way" ?

your in the wrong department here, maybe google "fairytale forum" to go post that nonsense in

In a turn there are limits the pilot has to be aware of: blackouts, accelerated stalls... he can pull the stick and go near that limit, but not too much.

This "too much" is relative to the pilot own bravery/experience.

Because of that I think its useless to make comparision of turn capabilities using pilots' quote. There are too many variables in that fight that are not provided to us.

Anyway I think you are belittling the importance of our simulators: they are many things far from from the reality but flying in the correct way (the "stay alive" attitude) you can feel some of the emotions that the real pilots were feeling at that time.

Turning near at plane's limits IMO is a matter of bravery, but in real life and in the sim. Personally I hate turning (infact I don't like the fightings we have in ROF, while I love the simulator itself) so everyone can outturn me...

In that gaming session I realized that I could pull the stick hard and my plane won't stall only after 4 crashes... since I was "already dead" I was no more afraid to die again and I started to outturn my teammate.

But I could't in real life.