how are these 109s turns 180 with out penalties?

[recoilfx]

Originally Posted by Robo.

There is nothing wrong with the 109 FM, they're deadly and manoeuverable in good pilot's hands. It's not easy to control these things on the edge (which is what you've probably seen). There are many good 109 pilots out there and you have to fly your Spitfire on the edge, too in order to beat them, that's all.

240mph IAS or TAS? Spitfire is much slower than it should be, in fact it's slower than Hurricane, but with good tactics and good control, you can beat the Hun anyway

Brit planes are easy to pick up. They are more stall proof and more stable gun platforms. They also have better tracers, gun sight, and rear views.

109s are harder to master. They are much more unstable; they can't follow turns; gunnery is also difficult. But if the pilot can master 109's energy potentials, they are the superior planes to fly.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by recoilfx

Brit planes are easy to pick up.

Any plane is easy to pick up. But it's difficult to fly it on it's best potential.

Mastif you just got to be more careful fighting good 109 jockeys, as I said, they are extremely agile and can roll into your turn easily. Emil's turn rate at higher speed is very good, too, fyi. Using trim and good rudder control, you can turn with a Spitfire for long enough to place a good burst and you'll have plenty energy left to extend, rinse and repeat.

[addman]

I think the 109 is right where it should be, extremely dangerous in the right hands and a total brick in the hands of a noob turn 'n' burner. I've flown red the last couple of nights on ATAG and there are two types of 109 pilots there, ace types and total rookie types and very little in between.

[ATAG_Doc]

They get a significant loss of energy when you put bullets in the pilot that's for sure. lolol Fix your aim.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Doc

They get a significant loss of energy when you put pullets in the pilot that's for sure. lolol Fix your aim.

We laugh at your pullets, they are useless against our bullets

[bw_wolverine]

Originally Posted by recoilfx

Brit planes are easy to pick up. They are more stall proof and more stable gun platforms. They also have better tracers, gun sight, and rear views.

109s are harder to master. They are much more unstable; they can't follow turns; gunnery is also difficult. But if the pilot can master 109's energy potentials, they are the superior planes to fly.

Have you actually flown a Hurricane, arguably the best fighter we have available until people let us use the IIa? Unless the target is 3k above you, or you have your cockpit constantly open, you can't see the deathstar on your six.

I have hopped in a 109 and the view from that thing is 10x better than a Hurricane.

And trying to suggest that the gun sight and tracers are making up for the deficiencies against the opposing speed, dive, firepower, and damage resistance is a little disingenuous.

You CAN win against 109s in the I, Ia, and Hurricane, but unless you're pilot of the year or the 109 pilot makes several mistakes, you need specific conditions (mostly height and surprise).

Maybe that's enough for people, for the game. But I'm getting awfully tired of 109 pilots trying to assure us red pilots that there's nothing different, they're just better. At least admit you've got advantages over the red pilots. There are plenty of very good red pilots who do very well. But I seem to notice that all the people I know who don't like to play games unless they rack up a score tend to be moving to the blue side of things....

EDIT: Sorry to sound a little pissed off. It's not directed at anyone in particular. We have a very hard time dealing with 109s that are flown by average pilots, let alone skilled ones. And all we seem to get for providing the targets for the turkey shoot most of the time is some guy on teamspeak hopping into our channel to blast German march music at us? The game is hard enough. I know it's supposedly in 'good fun', but after struggling to compete and no one flying bombers because the blenheim falls apart if you SPIT at it, what chance do we have. That's why I've turned to flying escort missions almost exclusively if ANYone will fly the blenheims during the hours I'm in.

[recoilfx]

Originally Posted by bw_wolverine

Have you actually flown a Hurricane, arguably the best fighter we have available until people let us use the IIa? Unless the target is 3k above you, or you have your cockpit constantly open, you can't see the deathstar on your six.

I have hopped in a 109 and the view from that thing is 10x better than a Hurricane.

And trying to suggest that the gun sight and tracers are making up for the deficiencies against the opposing speed, dive, firepower, and damage resistance is a little disingenuous.

You CAN win against 109s in the I, Ia, and Hurricane, but unless you're pilot of the year or the 109 pilot makes several mistakes, you need specific conditions (mostly height and surprise).

Maybe that's enough for people, for the game. But I'm getting awfully tired of 109 pilots trying to assure us red pilots that there's nothing different, they're just better. At least admit you've got advantages over the red pilots. There are plenty of very good red pilots who do very well. But I seem to notice that all the people I know who don't like to play games unless they rack up a score tend to be moving to the blue side of things....

EDIT: Sorry to sound a little pissed off. It's not directed at anyone in particular. We have a very hard time dealing with 109s that are flown by average pilots, let alone skilled ones. And all we seem to get for providing the targets for the turkey shoot most of the time is some guy on teamspeak hopping into our channel to blast German march music at us? The game is hard enough. I know it's supposedly in 'good fun', but after struggling to compete and no one flying bombers because the blenheim falls apart if you SPIT at it, what chance do we have. That's why I've turned to flying escort missions almost exclusively if ANYone will fly the blenheims during the hours I'm in.

Wolverine, I used to fly RAF exclusively, then I switched to the 109 for the challenge, I have flown for both sides.

I am not sure why you are offended though. I have stated that the 109 is a better plane in the game at the right hands, so if a red pilot can consistently out fly me I know that he is a better pilot (not comparing to Spit IIa).

Brit planes ARE easier to pick up, but 109 has more potentials to exploit, for the reasons I've already stated, i don't think I am wrong in any of that (Yes, I know that the Hurricane doesn't have great rear view, but you must have realize the 109 suffers the same?).

If you think that 109s are that much superior and as easy to master, please, come fly with us. As you may have noticed, red pilots almost always outnumber us blue pilots on ATAG. We are not born to fly one sided after all.

[SQB]

Regarding the original post... Sounds like you were versing AI or playing on singleplayer. For some reason AI can roll at light speed and have all sorts of physics-breaking maneuvers.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by SQB

Regarding the original post... Sounds like you were versing AI or playing on singleplayer. For some reason AI can roll at light speed and have all sorts of physics-breaking maneuvers.

That makes sense, the 109 is very difficult to master, except for our friend AI

[Attila]

in my opinion the FM and DM is more worse after the last patch! Before in a 109 you had a good chance to outclimb a Hurri and after the Hurri was stalling or turn away you had the option to dive on the Hurri! After the patch there was no chance to do that!
The DM from the Spit is overmodeled i think! I have never made it to shoot a Spits wing away, what is no problem to do it on a Hurri. The 109 is made of paper on this DM! Thats what i think about it!