MW50 -Secondary effects were cooling of the engine .

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Whacker

Err... I was under the impression from multiple, varied sources that the early Spits generally *were* inferior to their chronological counterpart 109's in a number of ways.

As I understand it, Spits always had better turn rates across the board and the 109's were never able to take the lead. The early Merlins were inferior and had fuel starvation problems in negative G situations, there was a band-aid solution that partially worked until several years later it was fixed. All but the earliest 109's had the Kommandogerat device which automated pitch and mixture, most also had automated radiator controls. Later Spits had more automation that worked, and as the war went on they had better armament, the later Merlins and Griffons were on par with or superior to their German counterparts, and the performance gap was finally closed.

IMHO the corresponding Marks of the Spitfire were more or less on par with the 109s, ie. Mark I vs 109E, Mark IX vs 109G, Mark XIV vs 109K - the only exception of the Mark V that was a bit inferior to the 109F from the start, and later Mark IX (1943 with the Merlin 66) that took a lead on the contemporary 109G-6.

The problem with not so much with development, but deployment. Even though there were as good Marks of the Spitfire at the same time, they were never entering service as quickly as the newest 109s. Mark Is may have been as good as 109Es, the difference was that all 109s were Emils in 1939/40, while most of the RAF still had Hurricanes and only a handful of Spitfires in comparisons. The Mark IX may have been about as good as the 109F/G in 1942/43, but again the difference was that while all 109 units had 109Gs, most of the RAF Spitfire Squadrons were still flying Mark Vs - even at the start of 1944 the Mark V was the most common Spitfire, just about to be replaced by the Mark Niners but the LW was moving to the next phase of MW boosted 109s and/or AS engines; the Mark XIV may have been as good as the 109K, but it mattered little given that 90% of the RAF Spitfire Squadrons were still flying Mark IXs, which were a bit overhwhelmed in performance by late 1944.

[MadCat242]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

IMHO the corresponding Marks of the Spitfire were more or less on par with the 109s, ie. Mark I vs 109E, Mark IX vs 109G, Mark XIV vs 109K - the only exception of the Mark V that was a bit inferior to the 109F from the start, and later Mark IX (1943 with the Merlin 66) that took a lead on the contemporary 109G-6.

The problem with not so much with development, but deployment. Even though there were as good Marks of the Spitfire at the same time, they were never entering service as quickly as the newest 109s. Mark Is may have been as good as 109Es, the difference was that all 109s were Emils in 1939/40, while most of the RAF still had Hurricanes and only a handful of Spitfires in comparisons. The Mark IX may have been about as good as the 109F/G in 1942/43, but again the difference was that while all 109 units had 109Gs, most of the RAF Spitfire Squadrons were still flying Mark Vs - even at the start of 1944 the Mark V was the most common Spitfire, just about to be replaced by the Mark Niners but the LW was moving to the next phase of MW boosted 109s and/or AS engines; the Mark XIV may have been as good as the 109K, but it mattered little given that 90% of the RAF Spitfire Squadrons were still flying Mark IXs, which were a bit overhwhelmed in performance by late 1944.

I dare to say that it was a common thing that outdated planes were still in service although they had already been succeeded by newer versions. According to Eric Membeek's JG 5 chronicles the Jagdgruppen of JG 5 which were operating from Kirkennes/Petsamo used the 109 T in 1941 (which is basicially an Emil). As far as I remember (don't have the book right here) they still had Ts in 1942 and were recieving their first F2 and F4s. In Il-2 you are flying G2s by that time. Dunno when they got their first Gs, prolly in 1943.
And while this Gruppe still had Ts and Fs their neighbour-Gruppe in Stavanger got the 190A in spring/summer of 1942.
I guess that the Luftwaffe had some kind of priority list for upgrades. Those units at the channel (JG 26) were probably on top while the parts of JG5 at the edge of the theatre were down on the bottom.

On the other hand, when the RAF sent their 151st wing to support the VVS at the Murmansk theatre, this wing was equiped with Hurricanes. So in winter '41/42 it was 109Es vs. Hurricanes (once again).
I don't know about the 2nd half of the war and the Reichsverteidigung. I could imagine that the Luftwaffe had more recent planes in their units (cause their losses increased and the old ones were "outphased" this way).