1982 Falklands (Malvinas) War: a view from across the pond

[klem]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

mmmmh I am not impressed with the whole Malvinas/Falklands issue, the truth is that we have two countries fighting over it for phoney reasons, when the only mutual interest is to put their hands on the oil rich seas around the islands.. the truth is that from an external point of view the UK claims seems to be a bit ridiculous and far-fetched, if anything for geographical reasons.. the best solution would be to turn it into an independent island, regardless of what everybody say.

You're absolutely right on two points. Oil and an Independent Island.

The first will always be a silent 'reason'. It has no moral value.

The second is what really matters. Ask the Islanders what they want for their island. That is what is important.

As far as I can tell, both from memory of 1982 and current island opinion, they prefer to stay 'British' but they can change their minds at any time of course. What they actually are is 'Falklanders' or whatever other name they choose for themselves. I think Margaret Thatcher never said the Falklands are British, I think I remember her saying the Islanders wanted to be British and that they had been invaded by what to them was a foreign power.

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by klem

You're absolutely right on two points. Oil and an Independent Island.

The first will always be a silent 'reason'. It has no moral value.

The second is what really matters. Ask the Islanders what they want for their island. That is what is important.

As far as I can tell, both from memory of 1982 and current island opinion, they prefer to stay 'British' but they can change their minds at any time of course. What they actually are is 'Falklanders' or whatever other name they choose for themselves. I think Margaret Thatcher never said the Falklands are British, I think I remember her saying the Islanders wanted to be British and that they had been invaded by what to them was a foreign power.

Agreed

[Sternjaeger II]

well yeah, I suppose that if I had to choose between being under the UK or Argentina I would go under the former within a blink of an eye, and the demographics of the islands (heavily shaped by the British occupation) talk for themselves. I would still frankly advocate my own independence, given the choice, and become one of the richest countries on the planet.

[Jaws2002]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

I would still frankly advocate my own independence, given the choice, and become one of the richest countries on the planet.

...That for about a year, until Argentina gets their invasion force ready. Argentina is a huge country and wants Falkland for themselves. Is little the small island, without Britain's help, can do to protect itself from an Argentinian invasion. There's no more than a thousand people on the island.
It took the whole strenght of Britain to get the island back. Sure, the Argentinian military is not what it was back then, but still, a little island is no match and it would be ocupied sooner or later.

Geographically and historically speaking, the islands were part of Argentina. The Argentinians made a big mistake invading. UK was almost ready to just give the islands to them. The Brits lost men on that windy rock. It is a lot harder to give it away now.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Jaws2002

...That for about a year, until Argentina gets their invasion force ready. Argentina is a huge country and wants Falkland for themselves. Is little the small island, without Britain's help, can do to protect itself fron an Argentinian invasion. There's no more than a thousand people on the island.
It took the whole strenght of Britain to get the island back. Sure, the Argentinian military is not what it was back then, but still, a little island is no match and it would be ocupied sooner or later.

Geographically and historically speaking, the islands were part of Argentina. The Argentinians made a big mistake invading. UK was almost ready to just give the islands to them. The Brits lost men on that windy rock. It is a lot harder to give it away now.

Yeah they really screwed up big time.

It still remains that releasing the tension about the Falklands and claim them as independent (with the status accepted on both sides) would serve as an example for the rest of the world in terms of relaxing things a bit, there's far too much tension over territoriality.

[Volksieg]

Originally Posted by klem

You're absolutely right on two points. Oil and an Independent Island.

The first will always be a silent 'reason'. It has no moral value.

The second is what really matters. Ask the Islanders what they want for their island. That is what is important.

As far as I can tell, both from memory of 1982 and current island opinion, they prefer to stay 'British' but they can change their minds at any time of course. What they actually are is 'Falklanders' or whatever other name they choose for themselves. I think Margaret Thatcher never said the Falklands are British, I think I remember her saying the Islanders wanted to be British and that they had been invaded by what to them was a foreign power.

Totally true. In some ways it is similar to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict inasmuch as it is all too easy to throw up an, otherwise logical and sensible, suggestion but it ultimately comes down to what the population want. The Falkland Islanders want to be British and, therefore, are.

Something I find interesting are the accusations of "Colonialism" and "Imperialism" coming from across the water.... Britain colonised the Falklands before there even was an Argentina and, if one wishes to split hairs, Argentina itself is a Colony, as is the United States.... Go far back enough and England is also. It seems to be colonies all the way back ad infinitum, ad nauseum and probably a few other "Ad"s that make me sound a hell of a lot smarter than I am.

Oil is certainly playing a major part in the decision making process, of course, but such is the nature of politics anyway...... if there are no resources or identifiable use for a territory, the claims to said territory will, naturally, tend to thin out somewhat. During the last Falklands conflict, the islands were a useful listening post into Cuba (Probably still are.... a few signed pieces of paper do not end a cold war, regardless of what our news networks and politicians may suggest.... heck! We all spy on each other anyway.... allies, enemies, neutrals....). This time the issue is much needed fuel. The fact the Islanders wish to be considered British is a strategic bonus if nothing else.

[fruitbat]

I think the Argentinians should give back Argentina to the native Indians, and return to Spain.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

I think the Argentinians should give back Argentina to the native Indians, and return to Spain.

so should Americans give back the US to natives and come back where they came from?

let's try and keep this conversation to a sensible level please..

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

I think the Argentinians should give back Argentina to the native Indians, and return to Spain.

Hmm, I am not sure if we still have some place here when you give back the British Isles to their original celtic people and return home. Maybe in Pommeria, it's pretty empty.

[Volksieg]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Hmm, I am not sure if we still have some place here when you give back the British Isles to their original celtic people and return home. Maybe in Pommeria, it's pretty empty.

Totally true. The only reason there is an England is because Vortigern hired Saxons, Jutes etc as mercenaries to fight the Picts and we simply refused to "go home" when the job was done. The rest, as they say, is history.......