Friday Update, February 24, 2012

Blackdog_kt · #1 02-24-2012, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lothar29

My mother! This is degenerating in a useless way! I don't want to disrespect to development, but if indicate that if this I sold to my as a Flight Simulator, because before working in tanks and artillery, the aircraft which is really what matters? If you want to make me happy but a tank Simulator, first to what we sold...not be that way want to follow, but many feel cheated...and stating that I speak on behalf of many, which do not dare to say so for fear of expelled them to the dictatorship that trabe was this implemented in this forum...I like what you do, but everything has its priority, and in this case, they are the aircraft and some bugs, and I want to be able to fly the Bf 108 or He115, because they do not develop these aircraft cabins? to clear! are not interested in truth...to my me cost € 70 my version collector of a flight simulator called IL-2 Cliffs of Dover, not named, PzKpfw IV Ausf A Cliffs of Dover...

Good luck and good luck to us fans of the IL-2 series, among which I am I!

I repeat, I speak on behalf of many people that think like me but does not want to tell...and now...expel me as they are doing lately with everyone who says what he thinks...

We don't ban anyone simply for having an opinion, no matter if its negative. It's bad manners that get people banned, not personal opinions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

IMHO complaining about 1C trying to generate more $ for flight sim development by attracting RO2 and World of Tanks players is like a dood complaining about his favorite bar/pub trying to generate more $ for a bigger beer on tap selection by letting ladies in for free on ladies night..

I see both as a good thing..

more targets!

Hahaha, excellent analogy

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraveyardJimmy

As I said in a post that was deleted (OT I think), I think that the models may have been already created. The controls menu shows this isn't something that has only recently been thought up, the potential (and perhaps intent) for ground units has been there since release (I remember seeing the vehicle controls on release day). The ground units have always had great detail and even animations on firing, so it doesn't seem as though too much 3D work would have been required.

Also, with a expansion/sequel on the way, modellers would have been working on new aircraft and we know that graphics programmers have been working on the new engine.

People here seem to think that the developers dont want to make a flight simulation or have abandoned it, but they are going to want both new customers and potential ones to buy the sequel, so there would be no point in stopping flight development.

As other people have said, wait and see for the patch and an official announcement on flight models and then see how the flight aspect is modelled. If you dont like the idea of ground warfare, I'm sure you can ignore it if the flight system is improved.

Exactly. I will probably not use the ground combat feature a lot. But i have friends who like WWII history yet they don't have the time or don't want to sit down and learn how to fly a WWII warbird.

Now, if this comes to fruition at a later date, i can fly in the same server as them, while they are moving forward in their tanks and i'm supporting them from the air. Voila, i can get like 2-3 more people to buy the sim and that's without even trying, people whose money will pay for my extra FLYABLE aircraft down the line.

We already have scripts for moving frontline markers that simulate ground units capturing territory (Repka servers have had this since forever).

Substitute front marker for tank spawn point and here you go, the folks on the ground don't have to "drive 100km just to be killed by an airplane, get bored and leave". And the best thing is, you can make it as realistic as you want: add a timer before the spawn point moves, or have AI or human-controlled convoys move up the lines to set up a forward command post and only activate it as a spawn point when the conditions set are satisfied ("have that much of this vehicle and that much of that vehicle drive here").

Which will in turn create the self-explanatory objective for the other team to attack those convoys and prevent them from consolidating their gains and moving on to capture their airfields. And all of a sudden, our flying has meaning and a tangible outcome on the game world/environment.

Am i really so smart that i am in a minority who can think this complicated stuff up (don't think so and this stuff is actually simple to think up, complicated is to implement them). Or are some people just so focused on their single pet-peeve missing feature and negativity that it stops them from actually thinking at all and realizing the boost in gameplay quality they will get over time from new features? I think it's option two.

It seems most of the annoyed feelings stem from these two reasons:

a) Many don't understand that different people work on the vehicles. But modeling vehicles with a separate designer team doesn't take away manpower from the flight sim aspects, especially since the physics (ballistics, ammo penetration, etc) and graphics (shading, etc) engines are COMMON.

It's the same engine, same physics, same graphics, same sounds, it's not like they had to suddenly quit all flight related work to focus on this. It's just that instead of firing a team of designers and rehire them at a later date to do the vehicles for the next add-on (and risk losing them to another company in the meantime, there are lots of simulation and strategy studios doing WWII stuff in Russia), they give them another project that might bring in some more sales for CoD.

b) Some people are just being a bit narrow-minded in what they expect from the sim. Sorry if this stings a bit, i don't have another way to say it but i assure you it's not meant as an insult.

What i'm trying to say is that for a lot of people this sim would just be IL2 remake with new graphics. Well, i'm glad it's not and has extra complexity under the hood.

So, who's right you'll ask? Well, it's one of those subjective things that both and none are, because it's a matter of personal taste. For people who simply want to zoom around in a dogfight sure, it's useless. For people who want an extra tactical and maybe strategic layer over their flying ops it's priceless.

And just like everything else in sims, the best way to do it if resources are available (or if it will secure extra resources by branching out to another customer demographic) is to have as much as possible and allow the user to turn off the stuff they don't want.

Saying "all i care about is warbirds, so they should just do that" is as shallow as saying "i do all my flying in full switch mode, so there shouldn't be difficulty options for rookies". I do fly in full switch mode and i do only fly, but i want them to have the extra options because a bunch of new buyers will generate income that will pay for my next maps and flyables and let's face it, it's far easier to learn and get into two dimensional ground combat for rookies than it is to fly.

This is the same discussion we had about clickable cockpits and extra CEM options a few years ago: most people argued against it with a passion ("LoLWut?! FSX in MY combat sims?")I and now they like and use the features because they are done in a clever, optional manner. Don't like CEM? You can turn it off. Don't like click-pits? Press F10 to disable it and map everything to your HOTAS.

But if you don't have a HOTAS and only a simple stick and keyboard setup, clickpits let you control a higher fidelity representation of the aircraft without needing a 2nd keyboard for all the bindings, you just keep the critical stuff mapped to stick and keyboard and use the mouse for the rest: essentially it let the developer up the ante in terms of realism without skewing the playing field depending on the player's peripherals. But most people were too blind to see it back then as well.

It will be like this with ground combat too. Don't like it? I don't drive it.

But somewhere down the line, the majority will be happy to zoom around, patrolling over hedgerows in Normandy in a bombed up P-47 and listen on TS for that CAS request from a friendly Sherman tank battalion that's been pinned down by 2-3 Tigers, swoop in and take them out and enjoy the added layers of gameplay it offers.

Thinking only about the couple of things that each one of us wants most and demanding that only those get implemented is not only egoistic, it also deprives us of better gameplay in the future.

I probably won't ever drive tanks. But i'll be smiling from ear to ear when i pull out from a dive after a rocket attack in a Typhoon if i know i just cleared the way for a friendly, human-controlled column in an online dynamic campaign, especially if those tanks overrun the nearby LW airfield stationing the 190s that have been giving me so much trouble during the past sorties and shell them in their hangars.

Video-games are all about escapism and imagination and pretending we are someone we're not, doing something we will probably never do in real life. Well, have some imagination people and stop acting like your wishlist is more important than that of the next guy

JG53Frankyboy · #2 02-24-2012, 06:49 PM

i just dont want to read/hear anything about "no time" or "limited resources" in regard of the flightsim part anymore actually

furbs · #3 02-24-2012, 06:50 PM

Again i love reading your CLOD fiction Blackdog, it sounds so good but whats makes you think any of that will happen?
When they fix what they already have and it doesn't crash after 30 mins EVERY time i play il have more faith in them pulling off a combined arms war.

I cant wait to drive into enemy territory with out being taken out by those P47s because i was driving through the trees

JG52Uther · #4 02-24-2012, 06:55 PM

Well I'm certainly hoping the patch sorts out the CTD issues, as I want to fly bombers in formation.
As for the update, I love it.Think STORM OF WAR rather than 'il2 CoD'...

furbs · #5 02-24-2012, 06:58 PM

Yep and im going to be great at tanks because im going to turn trees, buildings off, the landscape detail to very low and il have no probs picking off Blackdogs mates from miles away in my flak 88mm.

RCAF_FB_Orville · #6 02-24-2012, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furbs

Again i love reading your CLOD fiction Blackdog, it sounds so good but whats makes you think any of that will happen?
When they fix what they already have and it doesn't crash after 30 mins EVERY time i play il have more faith in them pulling off a combined arms war.

I cant wait to drive into enemy territory with out being taken out by those P47s because i was driving through the trees

+1, its a great flight of fantasy......but purely a dream, especially considering where we are at present. Blackdog, whilst I enjoy reading your posts enormously usually, calling people 'shallow' for the terrible crime of not being interested in ground combat when they *drum roll.....shock horror* bought a flight sim is quite laughable IMO, and this really should come as no surprise when one thinks about it. No offence of course.

Like I said in my previous post, I am not militantly opposed to it, as such, I just don't care. Its fine and dandy as long as I get a finished CoD. I am happy to take their word that this will be the case, and look forward to that day. Really, its quite apparent that it will be left to modders when the SDK come outs to recreate anything even approaching an immersive BoB.....which is what I bought the thing for (crazy, I know lol)....Like a lot of other folks too, obviously.

We do not have any idea whatsoever that 1c plan any kind of grandiose strategic element to this.....Since they apparently cannot even come up with a Chain home radar network and German radar equivalents on the strategic side of things (despite it being talked about by Oleg ages ago....Like many things), which one would think rather important in something which purports to be a simulation of the BoB; why do you think they can come up with something as complex as the presumably dynamic, all inclusive strategic sim elements you are musing on? What happened to crawling before you walk. The possibility of such a thing? Fantastic. My faith in their ability to do so on current evidence, at present? Sadly, negligible.

As for 'the majority will be supportive of this',* to what extensive market research are you alluding, blackdog? Its just that I and many others don't remember being asked a thing lol.

Only a very small number of customers regularly frequent the forums, hardly representative overall. Its safe to assume methinks a majority didn't give a monkeys about tanks and jeeps, and that was probably the last thing on their mind when they bought CoD.....hehe.

It may be that we will get radar at a later date, if so thats great, but my overwhelming impression is that CoD is being very discreetly shoved into a corner (out of sight out of mind) and that doesn't really wash with a lot of people, its just that only a few have the moxy to say it because they will invariably be attacked.

I'm not here to argue, its just an opinion, and its fine that others disagree.

I'm also not a killjoy, if people want to run around in their poxy tanks then let them......Have fun and knock yerselfs out lol.

Just give us correct performance data blue and red, ceilings, decent AI, systems bugs fixed working AA etc and SDK, then I'm happy as larry. That remains to be seen.....but hope springs eternal.

You've got to have a dream, eh?

Again, for posterity, not opposed to it so long as flight simulation is the overwhelming focus, I'm happy that others like it, I just sadly cannot share in or relate to their boundless joy.

I also apologise profusely for being so shallow, unimaginative, and narrow minded.

The truth is, I really wanted the ability to deploy into Britain German FPS Para's disguised as Nuns, with explosive chastity belt 'power ups' and the ability to poison the British water supply with 'Holy water' which is actually really a powerful neurotoxin hidden in special 'bonus areas' of the map by fifth columnist Nazi sympathising traitors. The figure head of this organisation being SpitGirls evil twin sister, Helga the Horrid distinguishable by her wooden legs, and merciless, unseeing, glass eyes. Oh my gosh, the possibilities!

This could only be accessed after achieving a 5 tank kill streak however. Its not like I'm not a dreamer! Believe it or not, I have an imagination, too.

Right, this post is actually in good humour, so theres no need to kick off.

Its just how I see it, that's all. YMMV. Roll on patch, stay positive.

Peace out.

furbs · #7 02-24-2012, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCAF_FB_Orville

+1, its a great flight of fantasy......but purely a dream, especially considering where we are at present. Blackdog, whilst I enjoy reading your posts enormously usually, calling people 'shallow' for the terrible crime of not being interested in ground combat when they *drum roll.....shock horror* bought a flight sim is quite laughable IMO, and this really should come as no surprise when one thinks about it. No offence of course.

Like I said in my previous post, I am not militantly opposed to it, as such, I just don't care. Its fine and dandy as long as I get a finished CoD. I am happy to take their word that this will be the case, and look forward to that day. Really, its quite apparent that it will be left to modders when the SDK come outs to recreate anything even approaching an immersive BoB.....which is what I bought the thing for (crazy, I know lol)....Like a lot of other folks too, obviously.

We do not have any idea whatsoever that 1c plan any kind of grandiose strategic element to this.....Since they apparently cannot even come up with a Chain home radar network and German radar equivalents on the strategic side of things (despite it being talked about by Oleg ages ago....Like many things), which one would think rather important in something which purports to be a simulation of the BoB; why do you think they can come up with something as complex as the presumably dynamic, all inclusive strategic sim elements you are musing on? What happened to crawling before you walk. The possibility of such a thing? Fantastic. My faith in their ability to do so on current evidence, at present? Sadly, negligible.

As for 'the majority are supportive of this', to what extensive market research are you alluding, blackdog? Its just that I and many others don't remember being asked a thing lol.