Why no E4s

[Osprey]

If it is moot then why are you discussing it? That is the second oxymoron of the day for you. It is not condescending to point out flaws in your reasoning. I'm not arguing for either case, ultimately it's a decision of the server providers and if you don't like it then fly elsewhere.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by Osprey

I'm not arguing for either case

Why are you posting in this thread, then?

[Martin77]

The sad think is, i often need many attempts to bring down a red fighter.
When i had a spit or hurri in target i had only a piece of second to shot and hit and then i hit only with two MGs.
When a spit is behind me i need two or 3 seconds to come out of its sight
cause due to the better turn rate they can hold me longer in sight and in this time i am very damaged due to the 2 second burst from 8 MGs.
The point is, when a hurri or a spit is able to shoot at me two times ,its over.
Dont forget the firepower of 8 MGs or the wider spreading!
I Rarely win a dogfight against good pilots since the E4 is restricted due to the lack of needed firepower. I damaged the plane but always not enough when the pilot is good and fly smart with saving energy is always able to turn the tide.
The reds have learned to fly their fighters very very well in the last months. Out climb tactics what worked some months ago didnt work so well now.
You need wider turns ( i dont mean turning) as before or a higher distance to the enemy to build the energy advantage and then i often loose the enemy due to the not good visibility of targets.


The argument with the advantage with the automatic prop pitch i dont se cause i turn it off and fly manually *on ear* for better performance.
When you fly on automatic you cant outrun or outclimb or outdive a good opponent.

[CaptainDoggles]

So, how are the Blenheims supposed to reach the target alone against m-shell armed E4s

Everyone assumes the minegeschoss just shreds bombers left and right. Honestly, it's trivially easy to down a Blenheim using only the MG-17s in the nose.

[Martin77]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Everyone assumes the minegeschoss just shreds bombers left and right. Honestly, it's trivially easy to down a Blenheim using only the MG-17s in the nose.

+1

I use cannons when MGs are empty

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Everyone assumes the minegeschoss just shreds bombers left and right. Honestly, it's trivially easy to down a Blenheim using only the MG-17s in the nose.

That's why we like the E-1

[Blackdog_kt]

I'm not saying it's not possible, i prefer to fly the E-1 too because of the longer firing times.

I'm just saying that MGs need tracking shots which give the bomber somewhat of a fighting chance. Cannons with m-shells on the other hand are deadly in high angle, high deflection snapshots which take the bombers completely by surprise.

Using the QMB in the old IL2 1946 i could down four B-17s with ace AI gunners without using any Mk108s, just 20mm guns, in full difficulty settings. In CoD with the more "human" AI gunners that miss, it's trivially easy to swoop down on a bomber from its high 3 and knock a wing off if you have m-shells. I've done it a lot of times not only against Blennies, but also bigger and harder targets like Wellingtons and Sunderlands that have wider firing arcs and more defensive guns.

If you also have a wingman (AI or human) to make a feigned pass and draw the attention of the turrets to the opposite direction before you dive on it and give it a short burst, it becomes a cakewalk because our new more realistic turrets have limited arc travel rates.

Of course, the E-4 can't be withheld forever. But when it comes post-patch, the Blens will have escort that doesn't CTD when it looks in their direction and the E-4 itself will be faster to deal with those escorts, according to its proper specs.

Then, blue bomber busting will probably fall to the 110 which will also be faster and harder hitting, perfect choice as long as it doesn't stick around to dogfight with fighters.

[TomcatViP]

The Blenheim was in fact an easy target to shot down. It was not a robust B-17. It dooes not need heavy fighters to get downed such as a 110.

ALtought personaly I think it's more fun when bombers are hard to shot down, it's a nonsense historically speaking with that type.

But I agree that the E4 guns are way overmodeled and need a correction (still I hve no prob with the speed contrary to many).

But please note that Bleheim in game have a superior cruise speed than the Ju88 hve. This does not seems to be accurate. I am always amazed at the pour souls nearly sailing their Ju88 past the English coast so slowly that even a Lyslander could intercept them !

@Martin77 : there is much more hacked FM flying now on the red side. Don't think that you need to change your tactics because red have improved theirs owns, think more in term of wich fight you hve to commit yourself and when you hve to run/extend/disco (?). And yes it's much like old Il2 4.10 and their stupid 51s .They just used the same risible trickeries.

[Blackdog_kt]

It's funny that the blue team's rides are what the red team's rides used to be in late war IL2 1946 matchups: Spit Ias or Hurris against 109s in CoD is like Fw190s against P51s in '46

I find it unreasonable to pull aircraft out of the set because another one got pulled (ie, straight up for balance reasons) but i also find it reasonable. No, i'm not crazy, it depends on the circumstances, let me explain.

The FMs are under revision. Since we can't have and use the accurate FMs yet, we need to keep the sim enjoyable for the most amount of people. That means we temporarily choose balance/playability over accuracy, at least until the FMs get corrected. I guess this is why most servers don't allow Spit II's and E4s and i'm fine by it, because there are also other considerations in the mix.

I mean, think of the bomber guys too. How is any team going to win a map if the bombers don't have a chance? Currently they can't fly in groups or with escort, due to the memory leak bug giving people CTDs. So, how are the Blenheims supposed to reach the target alone against m-shell armed E4s, or how are the heinkels and stukas supposed to do the same alone against fast climbing Spit IIs?

I think what the server admins are doing is correct: since the FMs are skewed let's skew the planeset too, to have a scenario where at least the broader, relative balance of power is close to the historical one.

After all, that's what matters most in the mission oriented servers. Absolute performance stats are all that's needed in terms of 1vs1 engagements, but a server is more than that, it's an entire tactical engagement and the thought process is different: each team has to be able to attack and defend in a manner reasonably similar to how it happened back in the 40s.

When the FMs are corrected then let's go all out and allow everything.

I mean, if what we read in the history books is true, it would be both challenging and balanced in a way and it would end up depending mostly on player tactics: the spit Mk.Ia will be faster than it currently is, but if all the FMs are fixed the RAF will still have the better turning aircraft and the LW will still have the faster aircraft, because the in-game 109 is also going to get beefed up (it's slower than the real one).

Heck, the 110 is probably going to be the fastest one of all and get its missing m-shells too, not to mention that about half of the fleet during BoB had the uprated engines making it even faster.

As you can see, allowing everything with corrected FMs will be very similar to what we have now: the LW will still be faster and harder-hitting, the RAF will still turn better. I think that's what the server admins tried to do and they succeeded, to get the broader picture correct until the FMs are adjusted to historical values.