A mod approval thought for 4.09 for the 1C team

[Baron]

Originally Posted by x__CRASH__x

I'm not sure if civil mod talk is taboo, but I wanted to air out a thought I had on the subject. I haven't downloaded or used any of the mods. But I don't disagree with them. I do worry about them going out of control and cheating will follow. So I had a thought.

From what I know, there have been some very good gains made with mods. They've put cockpits in some of the AI planes that would be fun to fly. They "corrected" a few things the modders believed to be wrong with the sim. They've upgraded the cockpit graphics of a few airplanes. And they've improved the sounds, from what I am told.

So, since the work is essentially done for these modifications, would it not be pretty easy for the 1C team to review the mods, evaluate their merits, incorporate them into a patch, and lock the game back up so no "nefarious", "questionsable" or downright "cheating" modifications make it into the game?

I essence, modders do the work and submit it to 1C who approves/disapproves it. Incorporates it in a patch, and releases it to the community. The community could even get involved voting on what mods they want included or left out.

What's the downside side? I only see positives. Improvements are made to an already fantastic, long standing game. 1C doesn't have to take much time away from their work on other projects. 1C keeps the IL-2 series locked up and hack free. The community is happy, and has new toys to play with.

Is there a downside?

The problem with that, as far as i can see, is that modders can release mods weather 1C approves of them or not since the code is out there and as for the time beeing there isnt any cheat filter online.

The "3:rd" party modder doesnt lose anything by not abiding to 1C rules as where the case (im sure) when 3:rd party developers did work in the past before the code was cracked.(or maby it was the locked code that prevented them from going beserk....i wouldnt know)

so approved mods in the future is kind of pointless since there will also be a boat load of non approved mods out there no matter what.



Not long ago AAA did NOT "allow" FM, DM (weapons) changes but now it seems thats out the window with for ex. a completly new Spit Mk1 with a completly new flight model done by people in the manner they "think" it should be, the same people who a few months ago did not allow FM, DM changes btw. If it was only 1 singel ac done to fit the whole game/gameplay it might be passeble, but everyone knows it wont stop there.

Rules ar fine..as long as people follow them...wich they don`t .....if one dont force them (with locked code for axample)

[DioMac]

Not long ago AAA did NOT "allow" FM, DM (weapons) changes but now it seems thats out the window with for ex. a completly new Spit Mk1 with a completly new flight model done by people in the manner they "think" it should be, the same people who a few months ago did not allow FM, DM changes btw. If it was only 1 singel ac done to fit the whole game/gameplay it might be passeble, but everyone knows it wont stop there.

Rules ar fine..as long as people follow them...wich they don`t .....if one dont force them (with locked code for axample)[/QUOTE]


And is God...Sorry I mean Oleg any different? How many notable people in the community bitch and scream about how their favourite ride is wrong because Oleg and Co were biased in the coding of the 'plane becasue thats how they think it should be? the F6F as an example.

Whats the difference Baron? AAA are extremely vigilant with FM DM changes. Just as vicous as certain people are in their denouncement of those using mods (Which for some reason they persist in calling a "hack") sometimes I havent been able to tell the difference. If someone posts there asking "can I have it this way becasue its super cool and I dont like it how it is" they are quickly banished or told to move along and the threads are often locked. Same as you people are at the zoo and here.

As for the Spit Mk.1 I have and I must say that it isn't some idiots wet dream. they have done a top notch job on it. The carby cutout works just right and so does the lack of firepower and I could go on and on.

Ultimately I think it comes down to a matter of pride. You have the newer younger generation who are getting into simming, and you have the adult jaded group who want to leave things as they are.

I know this post is incoherent. It's later and I'm very tired. I'll probably shake my head in embaressment when i read it tomorow but I'm just so sick of the stupidity and hypocrisy that some people have

[Thunderbolt56]

Originally Posted by Baron

Not long ago AAA did NOT "allow" FM, DM (weapons) changes but now it seems thats out the window with for ex. a completly new Spit Mk1 with a completly new flight model done by people in the manner they "think" it should be, the same people who a few months ago did not allow FM, DM changes btw...

I guess that's the thing I take issue with overall. I lurk over at AAA and have done considerable reading on what IS being done, what HAS been done and what's NOT ALLOWED to be done... at least for now. The "idea" of finally getting a MKI Spit is cool, but the whole thing goes against what heretofore was taboo. So, in that regard, I don't get it. Are there rules in the mod community? They say there are, but apparently some have the notion they're above the law or can change them if they feel like it...regardless of how much integrity they think they use in the implementation.

I've heard great things about the MKI as well as the very good "slot" map that's close to release and, for now at least, it seems the people that do it to truly enhance the sim are the ones in charge. I'm just worried about the less-trustworthy people that truly DO hack and I'm growing more exhausted at feeling I have to scrutinize everyone so closely. All the rumors that the sky is falling, IL2 is dead, the UBI forums are a rotting corpse etc,... are vastly over rated. Things have changed and they certainly aren't what they were even a year ago, but all of them are like a 60 year old...(long in the tooth, but not quite ready for retirement).

We are at a point where people have more choices regarding this sim and most will make good choices. It's the 2% that don't (and the inability to regulate them) that concerns me the most. And just so I'm not misunderstood, I'm not advocating against the mods or the mod community. I have some friends that are heavily involved (in both use and developement) and I trust their integrity implicitly. I don't like the fragmentation of the overall community, the possibility of true cheaters getting larger and the resultant accusations (many on false grounds).

[csThor]

At least the notion that they (AAA) have any kind of "seniority" or "saying" about the macks provides at least one good laugh a day. Talk about self-delusion. I'd bet my graphics tablet that there are a pile of other sites which "correct" FM/DM.

[WilliVonBill]

Originally Posted by csThor

I'd bet my graphics tablet that there are a pile of other sites which "correct" FM/DM.

Might want to be careful Thor... that's a good way to lose a perfectly good graphics tablet!


I may not agree with your postion, but I respect your passion for your viewpoint. But even you have to admit you got a wee bit carried away with that statement. If there are "corrected FM/DMs" out there, I certainly haven't been able to find 'em.

[tater]

Nope. Maybe for those capable of looking closer to 1C's home, perhaps. I can't read the russian sites, myself.

I've seen none. Zero. (and I've looked).

[csThor]

That's what I meant., tater. There is a wall between "us" and "the russian community" and that wall is called language barrier.
I remember Oleg making fun of the way people talk to him in different boards - russian players accuse him of overmodelling german aircraft and being "unpatriotic", german players accuse him of overmodelling the russian crates, british players accuse him of ignoring the british effort and finally US players keep saying that he hates their aircraft and the US in general. If you take that mindset into consideration (and it's enough if a handful of people share that) and remember that the hacking tools are available it would be grossly negligent not to expect that people are going to fiddle with the FM to "correct" things they see as wrong ...

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Originally Posted by Baron

Not long ago AAA did NOT "allow" FM, DM (weapons) changes but now it seems thats out the window with for ex. a completly new Spit Mk1 with a completly new flight model done by people in the manner they "think" it should be, the same people who a few months ago did not allow FM, DM changes btw. If it was only 1 singel ac done to fit the whole game/gameplay it might be passeble, but everyone knows it wont stop there.

Just to reiteratte, no fm/dm changes rule still applies, whats happened is they have discovered how to make a totally new aircraft slot. Unless the host has that new aircraft slot selectable in the mission there is no way to use this new AC online. Since this provides that no one can fly this thing online unless specifically allowed by the host this allows the possibility of making new AC with new FM and weapons etc. Things in the works are a spit XIV, B25 strafer, and when we figure out how to convert 3dmax files to il2 mesh files we have sources for the AC submitted to 1C that were never included, like the Fokker, DO 17, and things like that with completed models that were never released. Since these cannot be used online where they are not wanted it's safe to do this. No matter what anyone else says the goal at AAA is still to improve the sim, not to destroy it, AAA does not have total control over what people do with mods but they do have control over what THEY do and will do thier best to do whats best for il2.

[Zinger]

I find it interesting that this has again bogged down into a thread about how bad/good that mods are, etc...
The OP had the right idea .. the anti mod crowd are scared of all the bad "hacks" - well, the OP is suggesting a solution ... have a verifiable set of Mods included by MG ... these would be issued within the game, and would then fall under the CRT=2 umbrella, allowing people to fly regulated mods, rather than opening themselves up to the "hacks".

If I ran a server, I'd damn well be really excited by the Slot, Malta, Nth Africa, Greece, Sicily, CBI, Channel maps that are being made .. they're a heck of a lot better than stock, give whole new worlds to create missions on, and with the flyables, would expand the online experience tenfold.
But, you have to have the CRT=2 set to stop just what the anti-modders fear ... why not accept the OP's idea as a good compromise. You get the best of both worlds. Or are people too blinkered by bias to see the opportunity ?

[Rama]

Originally Posted by Zinger

you have to have the CRT=2 set to stop ...

Another one who think CRT=2 do protect against FM/DM/Armament changes...
You're wrong... it's just a little bit more complicated...

The problem isn't the mods, or the "AAA philosophy" or anything like this... it's the availability of the hack tools. Either you're pro- or anti- modder you have to get the fact that IL2 has now no protection against cheat.... and that it's not going to change.

So I repeat, there's only 2 options: either continue flying online and accept to play sometimes with some cheaters.... or wait for SoW:BoB.