Friday Update, January 27, 2012

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Before I get condemned as a 'fanboi', I would just like to say that IMHO it is incoceivable that anyone would release a game in the state COD was in 'knowing' it was going to be such a problem, yes they could have expected a certain level of issues (nobody can deny it was pushed out the door early) but saying they could have fixed the problem before they knew it existed doesn't make sense.

as 'Whiners' and 'anti-whiners' we are still a minority vocal group here (even put together) the silent majority aren't necessarily giving away the true state of things.

Just my oppinion, no attacks, no anti-whining.

Bongo, you know how the things are going in a world of modern games. There is core team testers, beta team testers, "open beta" testers....nobody realized the game has serious performance issues? I doubt...They knew it (some of them) from the start, and thats why Im so "angry". Just because of that. "Tell the truth from the start, no matter what is it". Its the best way.

But thats history now...lets move on....

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Tvrdi

Bongo, you know how the things are going in a world of modern games. There are core team testers, beta team testers, "open beta" testers....nobody realized the game has serious performance issues? I doubt...They knew it (some of them) from the start, and thats why Im so "angry". Just because of that. "Tell the truth from the start, no matter what is it". Its the best way.

But thats history now...lets move on....

I understand that part, but.....the beta testing was probably achieved with relation to the russian version, they didn't anticipate us weird westerners odd concerns for stuff like epilepsy, they got forced to sling in some safeguard stuff by ubi and subsequently forced to sling the game out as soon as it was done without the chance to test......perhaps?

Originally Posted by bongodriver

I understand that part, but.....the beta testing was probably achieved with relation to the russian version, they didn't anticipate us weird westerners odd concerns for stuff like epilepsy, they got forced to sling in some safeguard stuff by ubi and subsequently forced to sling the game out as soon as it was done without the chance to test......perhaps?

Hello Bongo,

Do you remember when Oleg was posting screens in the last few months before release, there were no "AA" ? The terrain was awful and trees, clouds, even railroads were very awkward ? It felt like it was many steps backwards compared to some earlier shots. Something happend in the last few months at 1C. Oleg didn't leave for no reason. To be clear, I am not accusing anyone of any badfaith, but surely things did not go as planned. Why ? We don't know really.
Also the fact that Oleg resigned immediately after Russian's release, is also an indication of big issues with the project.
And of course they knew...You cannot build a sim with so much technology and high end programming and not knowing it is not flawed.
We know COD was not mearly completed at release, but the real question is "why was it released and sold as a fininished product'' ? since we were (fans of IL2 around the world) the ones who'd buy it, and were also the ones who followed every step of developpement and were told to expect a lot (much better than IL2) for 6 years...
That is , in any case, my only unsolved mystery....

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by kalimba

Hello Bongo,

Do you remember when Oleg was posting screens in the last few months before release, there were no "AA" ? The terrain was awful and trees, clouds, even railroads were very awkward ? It felt like it was many steps backwards compared to some earlier shots. Something happend in the last few months at 1C. Oleg didn't leave for no reason. To be clear, I am not accusing anyone of any badfaith, but surely things did not go as planned. Why ? We don't know really.
Also the fact that Oleg resigned immediately after Russian's release, is also an indication of big issues with the project.
And of course they knew...You cannot build a sim with so much technology and high end programming and not knowing it is not flawed.
We know COD was not mearly completed at release, but the real question is "why was it released and sold as a fininished product'' ? since we were (fans of IL2 around the world) the ones who'd buy it, and were also the ones who followed every step of developpement and were told to expect a lot (much better than IL2) for 6 years...
That is , in any case, my only unsolved mystery....

I am a long time lurker so yes I remember alot of what was going on, I only really joined here on released of COD (just felt I should after so long)

Without doubt there is 'something' being hidden, wether it makes any real difference to our lives to know what it is? personally I don't think so, it's an internal political issue with 1C and none of my business, and I imagine whatever it is could be more damaging to 1C to let on......if you get my meaning.

My view is....what happened.....happened, nothing can be done, but I don't feel we are being conned or cheated.....not by 1C anyway, boycotting 1c in any way is likely to punish the ones that deserve it the least .i.e the devs and the general flight simming community.

Originally Posted by bongodriver

I am a long time lurker so yes I remember alot of what was going on, I only really joined here on released of COD (just felt I should after so long)

Without doubt there is 'something' being hidden, wether it makes any real difference to our lives to know what it is? personally I don't think so, it's an internal political issue with 1C and none of my business, and I imagine whatever it is could be more damaging to 1C to let on......if you get my meaning.

My view is....what happened.....happened, nothing can be done, but I don't feel we are being conned or cheated.....not by 1C anyway, boycotting 1c in any way is likely to punish the ones that deserve it the least .i.e the devs and the general flight simming community.

I did not mentionned boycotting, neither if it would change our lives , in fact no game should ever (!) , I only commented your post questionning the fact that 1C may have been in the dark regarding the quality of their own product at release.
And that they may have been " surprised' by our reaction to COD at release in North America.
Now how people reacts or feels about this situation, is very personnal.
But how people express those reactions on this forum concerns everyone here...And how people express their opinions about other people's opinions
is usually what goes wrong here ....

SAlute !

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by kalimba

I did not mentionned boycotting, neither if it would change our lives , in fact no game should ever (!) , I only commented your post questionning the fact that 1C may have been in the dark regarding the quality of their own product at release.
And that they may have been " surprised' by our reaction to COD at release in North America.
Now how people reacts or feels about this situation, is very personnal.
But how people express those reactions on this forum concerns everyone here...And how people express their opinions about other people's opinions
is usually what goes wrong here ....

SAlute !

I know what you were questioning, my answer just had a broader spectrum and didn't accuse you in particular, as far as the boycott issue.....well I hope you are not going to deny there has been tons of 'I won't buy the sequel because they broke my heart'....etc, most of it being incredibly 'short sighted', and as for changing lives I know and oviously you know it doesn't, but some others have behaved like theirs are over.

so expressing oppinions on oppinions here is a bad thing? and sarcasm?.......better ban everyone here then, in terms of how it's expressed.....well if anyone cared to look they will notice my initial answers are more objective purely to give a different way to look at things, but because I'm always at odds with the 'whiners' I get met with total hostility, trust me I'm by no means a great user of profanity and insults.....but sarcasm I can't help.

[Force10]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

well I hope you are not going to deny there has been tons of 'I won't buy the sequel because they broke my heart'....etc,

I don't think that has been said. I have seen people say that they won't buy the sequel unless they fix COD first, which is completely reasonable IMO.

[adonys]

I've just doublechecked with one of our professional modelers, taking the RATA/109 as our subjects, and we've reached the following conclusions (assuming you have all the documentation already gathered and available, which usually is the job of the designers):
- 1 week for the external frame (modelling & unwrapping)
- 3 weeks for the internal cockpit (modelling & unwrapping)
- 4 weeks for texturing (1 for external frame, 3 for internal cockpit)
- additional 4 weeks for tweaking, etc

That's a timeframe of around 2-3 months per model, with a single man working. Working with two men (one modeler, one texture artist) will cut this time frame in half (of course, the texture artist will have to wait for the first model to be ready, before starting the cycle)

...

Originally Posted by bongodriver

I know what you were questioning, my answer just had a broader spectrum and didn't accuse you in particular, as far as the boycott issue.....well I hope you are not going to deny there has been tons of 'I won't buy the sequel because they broke my heart'....etc, most of it being incredibly 'short sighted', and as for changing lives I know and oviously you know it doesn't, but some others have behaved like theirs are over.

so expressing oppinions on oppinions here is a bad thing? and sarcasm?.......better ban everyone here then, in terms of how it's expressed.....well if anyone cared to look they will notice my initial answers are more objective purely to give a different way to look at things, but because I'm always at odds with the 'whiners' I get met with total hostility, trust me I'm by no means a great user of profanity and insults.....but sarcasm I can't help.

I hear you...I am ok with that Bongo...But I am not saying that it is a bad thing to express opinions on opinions, I am saying that it is HOW it is done sometimes that may be the culprit of many endless threads and insults. I am a free expression defender myself...I think that anything can be said to anyone, but with good taste and respect... And not yawning when you are out of arguments Sarcasm is ok with me. But on an international forum, it may be misinterpreted sometimes...But again, free expession first...we fix things if necessary !...
What is funny ,is that in another thread I defied anyone to resist buying a brand new 100% working COD's sequel even if COD was not patched
to our satisfaction...It may well be the case !

SAlute !

[drewpee]

Maddox Games is a business not a hobby. Bills need to be payed. COD may have been released early to keep the project/business running. They need to play politics to survive. They need to eat. Two years ago the frenzy that was created with the rumors that Storm Of War may be close to release would have made the bean counters pretty confidant they would survive an early release of the game with all its faults. The project might now have the finances to continue with IL2s evolution.

I for one hope Maddox Games can achieve their goals and they are "huge goals". Buying a cutting edge game as a work in progress for me is better than not having the game at all. I wish the developers all the best. In the end we will all be the winners.