4.11 overheat and engine damage test results

[MaxGunz]

If you don't let your speed drop to near stall on climbout then you'd be able to maneuver enough to be hard to hit.

What speeds did the test pilots fly when setting time to high-alt records from ground?

And I note, as usual the B&M not backed by comparison to historic methods and data but rather contrived "what I gets".

[WhistlinggDeath]

Before I do this, need to ask (KG Alpha or others); Am I allowed to publish source code here from the 4.10.1 and 4.11 patches ?

The difference in the TA 152 is large.

Working on your ntrks now Swiss.

[shauncm]

hi everyone, this is my first post so please dont bite my head off!

firstly i would like to say thanks to everyone involved in keeping this great game going! it is incredible that after all this time this game is still the definitive WW2 combat sim. it is testement to the hours spent by so many people who try to keep this game up to date and enjoyable for everyone

i wouldnt normally post, but seeing that ive been mentioned:

4.11 !

its a mixed blessing from my point of view. i like to fly the tempest. i consider it an underdog plane against some of the more popular aircraft...(la7, i-185, spit25).
it is difficult to fly. it can and does bite. sadly for all its speed and firepower it is rather heavy and with a laminar flow wing it tends to have a sharp stall.

although i dont know as much about aerodynamics as some people, i consider this realistic. since i started flying it as my favourite aircraft about a year ago i have always had to deal with overheating problems. with the previous versions it was simplified, (keep it just below overheating and when you engage the enemy you have 4 minutes of 'cooking time')...simple enough. this teaches you to use the radiator, and the prop pitch (revs) properly. combine this with the supercharger settings and a manoeverability disadvantage and you have a unique ride.

from my understanding the tempest is best used as an energy fighter, but online battles are a different kettle of fish to reality. i tend to rely on stealth and speed. i think the tempest can do in the horizontal what a fw190 can do in the vertical. as things have changed since 4.10.1 i will explain how i flew.

(close range enemy only icons, else full real)...grj dedicado, spits vs 109's

assuming a close in fight, i would take off and climb to 2 thousand feet. pick up speed to 250 mph, and then dive to the deck using height to gain speed up to 570 kph.
on the deck i pitched back to 60 percent prop pitch, (2800 revs), which allowed me to maintain speed and boost without overheating, (radiator closed). i would try to keep my "G's" below 2 and find a target at long range. sometimes you can tell by their flight profile. if i found someone i would climb if neccessairy using full power..(9lb boost, 3750 revs) and take a shot. by the time youve attacked an aircraft the engine is hot.

back to 4.11, although the engine runs at high rpm there are ways to deal with it. i find i have to watch the radiator and oil temperature a lot more, and depending on which is too hot my corrective actions are different. i consider 2800 revs as standard whilst using 3750 as emergency...(like for a quick acceleration or the top of a high yoyo to pick up speed again).
i dont have a problem with the way the tempest flys. i think its an incredible aircraft which works well in a team. i do worry about the superplanes though. i was hoping that to get the best out of those aircraft the pilots would have to learn to manage prop pitch, radiator, throttle and supercharger.

if i am to be completely honest i dont know what i would suggest. ive met a lot of pilots who say that 'they dont look at their instruments'. given how often i need to check mine i wonder if linking the (wep/boost engaged) and (overheat) messages to the speed bar toggle in 'difficulties' would make a difference.

thanks for mentioning me WD, im sorry to say i dont know much about the planes you are discussing. i think i need to fly 411 some more.

[WhistlinggDeath]

I only mention those I thought could really fly and still are. I always enjoyed fights with you in the past Shaun (as have my lab mates), keep fighting and keep advancing. As to the Tempy Shaun, its FM (flight model) has not changed that much in 4.11, and it is not as badly affected by the overheating model as say the P51 or TA 152. Catch you in the skies soon (hopefully with me on your six, hehe

[MrBaato]

I don't see the problem with 'overheating', it's just a warning let it overheat till you feel like cooling it down again.

I myself am starting to enjoy this engine managed more and more. You actually have to enter a fight with a cooled down engine so it doesn't overheat instantly when you power it up. Whistelingdeath, I can't tell but perhaps you are cruising on the edge of overheating.

About the prototype planes, I know TD doesn't want to model engine reliability because of the frustration it might evoke. But planes like the I-185 suffered so much from it in real life that IMO it just isn't right how it performes in game. Same for the ki84 C version. There are alot of 'all planes enabled' servers out there, with these types in a dominant role. Prototype planes remained in that fase because they had issues, model them

[shauncm]

i just spent an hour writing about the mustang and how to do bnz apex climbs with the new engine managment.

the forum 'lost' it when i had to log in again. i am a bit annoyed.

well, nm

for anyone who is interested:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48389272/M...1-pilots-notes

of particular interest is the power curve graph at the end.

[shauncm]

Originally Posted by MrBaato

I myself am starting to enjoy this engine managed more and more. You actually have to enter a fight with a cooled down engine so it doesn't overheat instantly when you power it up.

you didnt fly the tempest in 4.10.1 then,

[MrBaato]

Originally Posted by shauncm

you didnt fly the tempest in 4.10.1 then,

who needs full power in a tempest anyway, unless you want to take off like a helicopter

[Snake]

Originally Posted by shauncm

i just spent an hour writing about the mustang and how to do bnz apex climbs with the new engine managment.

the forum 'lost' it when i had to log in again. i am a bit annoyed.

well, nm

for anyone who is interested:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48389272/M...1-pilots-notes

of particular interest is the power curve graph at the end.

Great reading Shaun. Thx for the link!

[shauncm]

whistlinggdeath> i know nothing about the TA152, so i cant comment on it, but i have occaisionally flown the p51 on spits verses 109's

in the past i found that as long as i kept the engine revs in the green band...aka prop pitch at 60 percent, i could fly fast without overheating even at high manifold pressures. since 4.11 this machine seems to have become very hot at low altitudes. when i tried the mustang III it really surprised me, i mean after all its the same engine as a spit IX (i think)...

when we have flown against each other in the past it has generally been between 'down on the deck' and 15000 feet. this is where the mustang and p51 overheat most.

at 20000 feet and above it seems to stay cool a lot better. i think this is because of the air temperature being lower up there...(dry adiabatic lapse rate)... i would go as far as to say that the performance of a p51 is directly linked to the outside air temperature. (the p51D has a carb-air-temp sensor).

at ground level the OAT might be 20 degrees C. the P51 overheats at 120 giving a 100 degree difference.
at 20000 feet the OAT would be about MINUS 20 degrees C. this gives a 140 degree C difference.

if anyone here has done any overclocking they will know that hot air isnt very good for cooling!

at 20000 feet there is a lot less airflow, but the air is colder. basicly is there too much temperature influence and not enough flow influence? i dont know, ive never flown a p51...


on a slightly different note; when i was trying to figure out how to fly this P51 monster, i tried a lot of different combinations of manifold pressure and revs. i found that between about 13000 and 17000 the supercharger would keep switching between high and low mode. i think its because as the revs drop the MP drops causeing the supercharger to shift up a gear. this causes the revs and MP to increase causeing the supercharger to shift down again.

my question is; given that the p51 seems to have an auto and manual high and low speed, can this be implemented? it is starting to make a lot of difference now with the new thermal model.


this may be a sore point to some, but could it be that the p51 is just outclassed by a lot of planes? dont get me wrong it was an incredible design, but compared to a 25lb spit or a la7, is it best used as a target bouy... after all the bf109 like the spit were best used as homeland defence aircraft. incredible performance but short range. the p51 could goto berlin and back....i dont know. all im saying is maybe the servers we fly on are geared towards the superplanes that people seem to want to fly. if this is the case i hope it stays the same way. a lot of people like to fly the spits and although in a 1v1 i cant hope to beat a 25lb spit, im greatful that i am given a tempest to fly on that server

i really like this new patch. its made IL2 yet more realistic. having to watch the gauges and diagnose the engine problems really brings planes like the tempest to life. it would be nice to see more people migrate towards challenging aircraft that need constant adjustment to get the best out of. spits and la's seem a bit too 'plug and play for my likeing'.

as for the tempest being a helicopter.. well in previous versions of the game and mods maybe, but the stock tempest is a 5000 kilo lump of metal fitted with a cutting edge, state of the art, avgas furnace kicking out 1.6 megawatt.---"wake up and smell the oil fumes!!"