Community help needed with AI and Radio Comms

[katdogfizzow]

Just a suggestion, not sure if feasible:

When a group of BF110s are attacked they should fly in a defensive circle to cover each other. Ive read about this tactic in multiple books and sounded very common early on. It would be cool to see AI doing it. More info here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=15311

IL2 1946 had awesome AI and radio coms!

[5./JG27.Farber]

Think you already have the German brevity codes as I hear them in game.

Heres a link anyway:

http://www.gyges.dk/Operatonal%20bre...Ver%2010_1.pdf

[Bloblast]

AI findings

AI takes off without warming it's engine, as player you are too late to follow.

AI keeps flying in formation when being attacked. As player it's easy to down these aircrafts.

AI crashes when player lands instead of landing at home base.

AI congratulates player for a kill too early not visible yet that the aircraft goes down. As player you have an advantage not wasting ammo.

AI bailing out too early out of small damaged aircraft.

AI continues flying in a burning aircraft.

AI not dropping their bombs on target, they fly home with their bombs.

[Bullit]

Error description: Launcher.exe Crash
Details: Playing online after 5 to 60 mins the whole game crashes to desktop. This happens even faster when more aircraft are in one place.
Can it be consistently reproduced?: Yes, have 12 pilots take off from 1 airfield and the whole game slows down and then crash. Same with large formation flying...

Win 7 64 bit

Asus Mobo
8 Gig of Ram
CPU I5 @3.0Ghz
5770 ATI Radeon

[Madog43]

Hey,

for now i think the most important feature for the AI would be some kind of debug output. Reading some very good suggestions like having rookie pilots react in a slow / panic like way could easily interpreted as further bad AI behavior, even though it was intended. Lacking this feature a proper discussion with everyone talking about the same situations / reactions is hardly possible in my opinion.

Hence the AI should state what its trying to achive and why, of course this should only be enabled as a debug for example in track recordings or as a text file.

An example to illustrate:
Player P attacks a formation of fighters F(1-4). He hits F(4) on his first attempt and breaks of not overtaking the formation. F(4) starts a slow turn, not going fully defensive, but leaving formation.

From a player standpoint of view there a several "bugs" to report, for example:
* AI reacts not defensive enough if shot at
* AI formations don't form a defensive circle when attacked
* AI turning performance is bad

From an AI standpoint of view there might have been reasons for this behavior, for example:
* AI tries to simulate bad leadership by a slow reacting formation leader
* AI pilot is dead, the rest of the formation has not noticed
* AI plane is damaged, course can not be maintained, AI is still in the process of communicating

To resolve messages like this could help:
*F(4): i have been hit, i do not know by what or from where, i am a rookie i am waiting for a 3.14 second time to properly react
*F(1): communication with formation ongoing
*F(1): i am a rookie i am waiting for a 5 second time to decide what to do next
*F(4): i am a rookie i have a 79% chance of panic, i panic and hence leave formation, i am trying to find the attacker
ect. ect.

Of course this would be very verbose, and could not be used all the time. But for the sake of a proper improvement of single, isolated situations and reactions it is very important.

Madog

P.S. Oh, first post... Hello everyone

[salmo]

Thanks for hijacking the thread everyone BlackSix asked for SPECIFIC information about Ai behaviour. Can we stick to the format below & not wander off into discussions which have been canvased many times in other threads ...

“when plane X is in situation Y, instead of Z it should do ABC”

Error description:
Details:
Can it be consistently reproduced?:
Screenshot or video:
OS, system specs:

Or use this format for general suggestions:

Suggested improvement:
Detailed description:
Proposed benefits:

[planespotter]

Originally Posted by salmo

Thanks for hijacking the thread everyone BlackSix asked for SPECIFIC information about Ai behaviour. Can we stick to the format below & not wander off into discussions which have been canvased many times in other threads ...

“when plane X is in situation Y, instead of Z it should do ABC”

Error description:
Details:
Can it be consistently reproduced?:
Screenshot or video:
OS, system specs:
:

Yes, fair

Error: aircraft do not engage in 1 vs 1
Details: if only one aircraft is in a flight, it is 'invisible' to other ai
Reproducable: yes, set up 1 vs 1 in qmb or fmb, or even 2 vs 1. Set aircraft for head on merge at same altitude. Set to autopilot to eliminate player actions.
Observation: setting enemy as 'target' in fmb does not help either.

Error: aircraft do not engage enemy aircraft in clear view
Details: despite good visibility and proximity ai does not engage
Reproducable. Yes, in fmb set one flight blenheim to bomb target. Set 3 flight 109s to patrol target. Set 109s to free hunt, veteran, full fuel and ammo. Blenheims will attack target and exit without being attacked despite proximity to 109s.
Observation: this seems to have something to do with ai ability to 'see'. I have made mission where ai will not engage, then I move waypoint a little, laterally not higher or lower, not closer or further away and start again and ai engage. Is not a 'proximity bubble' problem either as ai formations can sail through each other eithin metres without engaging.
Suggestion: ai in free hunt should always target nearest visible enemy. Implement option for ai to 'always see ' enemy. Need code preventing more than eg 2 ai attacking same enemy.

Error: bombers not releasing full bomb load on default setting shallow dive
Details: bombers sometimes release only one bomb at target, going home withmore in bomb bay. This is without any player adjustment to bomb load, timing, fuses etc.
Reproducable: set a Blenheim to bomb a target with shallow dive.
Suggestion: default ai should always release full bomb load

Error: ai does not evade when attacked
Details: when ai is in 'go home' state...eg landing, low fuel, no ammo, it does not evade when attacked but stays as sitting duck. Or, maked only one evadive manoeuvre and then returns to level flight even though still under attack
Reproducable: easily
Suggestion: ai should stay active and execute defensive moves as long as enemy is within eg 500 metres.

Error: ai does not attack player
Details: player can participate in large furballs where ai never attacks player despite player shooting at multiple ai.
Details: this is a gameplay design quedtion/issue. One or more ai should always be 'assigned' to attack the player. Maybe customisable by player. Or, an ai which is shot or near missed by player, should try to attack the player in return.
Reproducable: choose large quick mission and observe multiple times how many times player is actually attacked by ai. Is few.
Suggestion: implement code like in BoB2 which has line in config: 'max ai attacking player=X'

[Continu0]

As i read in the other thread that we should post general suggestions here as well, here is one more:

Suggested improvement: Disapearing Mouse Pointer

Detailed description: Mouse Pointer disapears after not being used for maybe 3 seconds. When the mouse is moved again, the mouse pointer appears at the old spot.

Proposed benefits: Easier Handling, Mousepointer doesn´t disturb you because you have to move it away.

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by csThor

Quite honestly I am not sure a static "if this happens than that should happen" is what should be the goal. That is canned AI, utterly predictable and after a while players know what the AI will do. I find it difficult to say what an AI should do in a given situation since I'm not sure of the exact circumstances in the first place and I don't really want a "AI reaction manual" with only pre-scripted reactions.

The whole issue is complex, very complex ...

Yes and no... probability can be programmed. Human behaviours can be determined with high degree of probability, not perfect of course.

If a pilot is veteran and he is engaged in a certain fashion by 1 or more fighters there is high probability he will make several responses. One choice might require difficult maneuver, another might be a safer move, another a risky move but could be very effective, etc. Yes there should be some reliance on skill for responses, yes there should be reliance upon the condition of the pilot and/or aircraft (tired, injured, damaged, out of fuel).

Many factors need consideration, but the trial and error portions of creating a competent AI performance can be programmed. The probability aspects of various action and responses can also have a low probability of a "random responses" as well.

Simple example of probabilities, if a enemy is diving on you head on from higher altitude at high rate of speed with a lot of E. 30% chance you will turn up your nose and try to hit him on pass which will also lower your E and airspeed, 60% chance you will nose over negative G's and try to gain E and airspeed in opposite direction, 10% chance you will turn hard and maneuver to get behind him, and then there is the random choice - yaw hard and try to deceive the enemy of your flight path.

Yes there are many scenarios that can play out with 360 degree attacks, speed and E, but with enough probabilities, trial and error a good AI performance can be achieved. The package doesn't have to be done all a once. It will have to be developed over time, with help from the community as it was done with the BOB II WOV community.

There is no AI performance package comparable or as competently programmed as the BOB II WOV AI. The sim is over 10 years old and it cannot be a state of the art application with the old code and graphic capabilities.

I would be very content to have a fairly competent AI package to start, which has options for the community to have access to areas of the source code where AI is programmed.

Anyone that thinks a competent AI cannot be done just needs to go the BOB II WOV site, buy the download of BOB II and apply the update patches. Spend some time with the BOB II in action and you will be astonished what can be done.

The BOB II WOV has no multi-player or programmable mission builder, but the campaign is very good. The action is air combat, but that is what the Battle of Britain was for most part.

[Frequent_Flyer]

Dead is Dead !!!!- When an aircraft AI/Player becomes a flamming comet- kill the pilot or have him bail. In either option the aircraft , should roll over and do the proverbial " lawn dart " to final destruction. It should not continue on as the eternal flame or do the 45 min. flamming death spiral.