Pacific Fighters Bombed - inadequate maps

[robtek]

@tater
its all about to satisfy the shareholder in our capitalism.
the companys would have lost nothing if they had said: "ok, we allow you to use the names for this game only! next time ask beforehand."

[tater]

Not true, robtek. The entire thing was predicated by the use of the company name on the box with no copyright/attribution, IMO. A company is required to defend its name. The box of course has a global copyright on it saying that everything belongs to ubi/1c/whatever (don't have my box in front of me, it's at home). Without the note that NG is property of NG, they are in fact saying on the box that THEY own the NG name.

Slam dunk, taken to court, they'd have to recall the product, pay damages, etc.

Had the PF box not had NG's name on it (NOT the plane names), nothing would have happened. Since they had ubi over a barrel on that, they could demand anything they wanted and get it. You can argue with that, certainly, but it was entirely predicated on the lack of a decent copy editor and legal team to vet the box art (any company as big as ubi should have run the box past editors and lawyers as SOP).

Note that I'm not trying to be an apologist for NG, but there are two corporate entities here, and only one gets the flak on the boards for "greed." You could make a similar argument for being too greedy to pay a few hundred bucks to have the art checked.

[nearmiss]

I found the AAA site

http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/index.php

I dl the engine and weapon sounds mod, and the two map mods.

There is just so much going on and the mod makers are having a field day.

More power to them.

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I think their map mods are pretty good, but they are mostly color improvements. Most of the maps still need more work.

Trees do not grow in Salt water. The idea of all the trees is great, but taking trees beyond the shoreline into salt water should not be.

The Pacific Islands were covered in Jungle.

Roads and tracks were barely seeable from the air, because of trees and foliage.

Trees often extended very close to beaches, often overhanging waters edge.

Trees and greenery was everywhere, especially Pacific Islands, mostly jungle.

Lakes, rivers and streams should have trees along waters edge borders.

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The water that runs from the oceans inland should not end in a nice soft arc, they need to end in sharp jagged narrow ends or tentacled ends.

You will always see trees growing along the waters edge of any body of water, this is never the case in IL2 maps. Trees love to grow beside fresh water and border all lakes, rivers and streams all over the world.

There are large open spaces of land in IL2 maps bordering the edges of all rivers and streams, which is just not the case. There are certainly some open spaces around such areas, but nothing like in IL2 maps.

There are large open spaces on both sides of all roads and tracks. I always hated this because finding the ground enemy was always too easy and the combat engagements just seemed stupid.

The IL2 maps/battlefields are just laid out in perfect view for attacking aircraft to find and destroy ground targets.

It would be great to have partially concealed roads and tracks making it hard to find the enemy, and conversely the enemy could hide. Much more realistic.

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Don't get me wrong I like what has and is being done. The current map mods are mostly a green up or winterize some maps. Maps is definitely the big bug-a-boo for the Pacific war theatre. The maps are nowhere near as good as they can be at this point. Burma looks pretty good but you still have the same kind of issues with trees not bordering water, streams, rivers, roads and tracks.

IL2 maps are just too neat ---

[Aviar]

"Wow! Oleg has really opened up things."

You must be joking. I'm sure you know that those are all illegal hacks?

Aviar

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by Aviar

"Wow! Oleg has really opened up things."

You must be joking. I'm sure you know that those are all illegal hacks?

Aviar

Illegal! do you think...?

I never heard of the site until yesterday, and everything looks pretty darn legit to me.

What would be the consequences for using something like a mod that works and doesn't mess with the application code. There are plenty of mods that just use the things already in the IL2. I remember what a tough job it was for some mod builders, because nothing was documented about files or contents of files.

I gotta say this...

If word gets out that people can make mods of maps, aircraft, panels, etc.

Those old copies of the Il2 Sturmovik 1946 that haven't sold will jump off the shelves.

Oleg, may even get to do another release of it.

I saw it at Circuit City awhile back for $10 US, nobody wanted it.

[Spectrum]

Tinkering around with the appearance of the maps and making winter versions of existing maps is nice, but what would be really great would be to see some new maps to cover the missing areas.
I don't see how creating new maps can benefit any cheaters in the online game.
Who wouldn't like to fly over a few new Pacific Maps, or fly across the English Channel, or maybe an enlarged Ardennes Map.
Sure, you can use your imagination by adapting existing maps, but its not the same is it.....

[csThor]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

I don't see how creating new maps can benefit any cheaters in the online game.

Because the same process that gave "them" access to the maps also gives access to nearly everything else? And since there is currently no technical solution to discern what was modified it's either "all gates open" or "all gates closed".

[mondo]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

Illegal! do you think...?

I never heard of the site until yesterday, and everything looks pretty darn legit to me.

Using the 'sound mod' etc is in breach of the EULA.

[nearmiss]

I think it's a good thing. Probably not stoppable.

I would suggest Oleg get on the bandwagon and find some way to make some money off it.

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I'm not unhappy with IL2 Sturmovik 1946. This sim is still state of the art in most respects, compared to other CFS.

The AI performance needs work, the FMB needs work (new tools) i.e, triggers, events, event areas, etc.

Maps,maps and more maps are needed.

The sound Mod Mondo mentioned. Well, I can tell you it may be full real sounds... but most of the planes sound like the bearings are going out on the motor (from inside the cockpit). LOL

Oleg would be smart to workaround this and maybe even join in the processes to some extent. Why, because he still holds the core code and can make things happen more his way than we realize. This may just be the kind of thing Oleg needed for his great old sim all along. Oleg has already pretty well written it off, as I understand. I could be wrong, but he is putting all his eggs in the BOB basket.

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I have an opinion:

Oleg is making a mistake trying to make a complete sim about a few months of air combat over a miniscule part of the war. I've done the Rowan's BOB and now the BOB II WOV with all the add ins. He will have to really do some fabulous work to duplicate or exceed the AI performance for OFFLINE play in the Shockwave BOB II.

Oleg may turn this few months of air combat(the BOB) into some kind of glorious, graphic masterpiece. I don't see that much interest being there for a dedicated sim to this one period of history, in this one place. The landscapes are flat, uninteresting mesh and terrains. The few aircraft that were flown in the BOB were shooting their .303's, very Boring....

I enjoy the IL2 because I can fly those weak weapon aircraft, and then I can jump into an aircraft with some real firepower and whup some tail.

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MSFT shot their foot. They had a great CFS that people loved, CFS2. The CFS3 was a state of the art graphics improvement and for the most part it was a nightmare for users. As a result, MSFT has just walked away from the CFS games.

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Oleg should take the IL2 Sturmovik 1946 and improve the sim, maybe with some hard work and dedication. Find a way to connect with this new influx of influence from devs... who have found a way.

What people are really saying is they don't want IL2 to go away, and the message couldn't be clearer or louder.

The AAA site is very new and already has over 6,000 members. Think about that, does someone have to get smacked up side the head to realize there is enormous interest in an improved IL2. The BOB may not be anywhere near what someone thinks it will be.

People enjoy the IL2 because it covers the war all over the world to a large extent. I personally, like the early conflict on the Eastern Front and the early conflict in the Pacific War. Everyone has their own little niche, but with the BOB it is going force everyone to the one little niche (BOB), that is of little or no interest to a lot of people.

Oleg must make a way to keep the IL2 intact even if he takes the old IL2 and moves it into a newer software engine. Let us continue to fly 8 poly current aircraft and incrementally add in the 16 poly aircraft.

This is a marketers dream. The users of Il2 are still out there clamouring for more and more.

The sim is a hit, what the hell else could you want.

You might think those are strong words, but someone needs to get the message.