109 advice needed (climb)

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

I'm not "defending the FM" so much as debunking bogus claims that the Spitfire/Hurricane are overmodeled.

It's been satisfactorily demonstrated elsewhere on these forums that the Spitfire MkIa is actually undermodeled. On top of that we've got the nebulous term "Energy Retention" which is entirely the construction of sim pilots, and not a real performance parameter dealt with by engineers.

I say that it's irresponsible because other, less knowledgeable posters might take what you say as fact, and then we get into the highly-polarized territory so familiar to 1946 pilots where stark lines are drawn between Red and Blue pilots. People get emotionally attached to their favourite rides and spew vitriol at any potential gainsayers.

I see your point, but I see no interest either in nursing people and hide the fact that the FM is incomplete and wrong. Red planes are porked as blue planes. And God knows how little I care about R vs B querelles.
I repeat it, I've no hard evidence, but after flying some 100 hours on ATAG I grew the subjective idea that the energy retention of Spit is strangely overdone. Not so for the Hurricane, imo. And energy and its conservation (retention) in my engineering mind is a very straightforward concept ... kinetic energy, potential energy, drag, you know, nothing exoteric nor nebulous.
Regarding the highly porked FM that we bought, the hypotetical "less knowledgeable posters" need just to consider some well known facts, so well known that I'm almost ashame to repeat them:

- the ceiling of Spit, 109 and all the other planes is wrong by 25%, at least, with 109's ceiling even lower than the others, in my tests
- the G stall is not modeled at all (not a minor detail!)
- the Vne is a vaguely modeled concept (I can dive from 5000 m with a 109 at full throttle without the slightest frame damage)
- the G-stress frame damage, so nicely done in 1946 from 1.09 on, simply doesn't exist in CLoD.
- some planes, such as the G.50, are penalised by as much as 30% in speed, climb rate and turn rate. Ask El-Aurens.
- Spit is limping behind the Hurricane, when it should be the opposite

I can continue, but I believe that a flight simulation is not one, with all these flaws of FM.

Cheers,
Ins