Strange archery

[Piemaster]

You should test crossbows for this, most likely they are more powerful than the bows. I have also heard that the western archers are crummy in general, whether this is true or not I'm not certain.

[Grim.Reaper]

Originally Posted by Piemaster

You should test crossbows for this, most likely they are more powerful than the bows. I have also heard that the western archers are crummy in general, whether this is true or not I'm not certain.

Even if I test this wont change the fact the archers are weak. Don't get me wrong, I don't want my archers to kill everything on sight, but if I have 2 units on the top of a hill shooting at a stationary target, some better die. I could have the worst archers and my enemy the best units, but showering them with 100's of arrows better kill some of them even if with just lucky shots.

[Goblin Wizard]

Some facts about arrow script:
(..\data\aix\weapon\inf.g1.archer.arrow.static\inf .g1.archer.arrow.static.aix)

Each soldier has 24 HP.

Types of arrow damage:

[*] = ;const DeadDamage = 24;
[*] = ;const HardDamage = 12;
[*] = ;const LiteDamage = 4;

An example of damage probability with western bow against unarmored target:

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 5 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 9 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 11 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 12 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 45 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 3 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 6 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 8 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 95 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 2 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 4 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 100 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 2 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

As you noticed there is no chance to kill a soldier in one shot (no possibility of dealing DeadDamage) at long range. If distance is greater that 94 meters you need 6 successful hits to kill a soldier! Even at medium range like 45 meters chance of dealing DeadDamage is very low. And all of this is against unarmored target!

Some examples of crossbow damage (xbow against 0 armor):

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 5 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 10 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     HPDec := HardDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 40 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 6 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 7 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 9 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 100 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 3 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 4 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 6 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

As you can see xbow is absolutely deadly at short range. Nearly every bolt kills. Of course at long range xbow is not so deadly but still has a chance of insta kill (unarmored target).
So If you don't like dev's archery system you can easily change it yourself.

[Grim.Reaper]

I don't doubt and have never doubted that is how the developer's scripted it since that is what is happening in the game, I am questioning whether that is accurate or not. Sure, I could update the scripts myself, but that is not something I really want to do for games I buy.

I don't know the precise distance between my units, but visually seemed very close and I was on top of a hill looking down. It would seem there would be some additional advantage for that as well.

[ThisIsRealWarfare]

Originally Posted by Grim.Reaper

I don't doubt and have never doubted that is how the developer's scripted it since that is what is happening in the game, I am questioning whether that is accurate or not. Sure, I could update the scripts myself, but that is not something I really want to do for games I buy.

I don't know the precise distance between my units, but visually seemed very close and I was on top of a hill looking down. It would seem there would be some additional advantage for that as well.

Go for changing yourself. They might patch it, but if you prefer a quick fix of it, go for the scripts
I will absolutely do that myself. Thank you very much Goblin Wizard for the scripts!

[ThisIsRealWarfare]

Goblin Wizard, I was wondering, as you seem to know about scripts and stuff: Do you possibly know how to change camera strafing? You've probably read what I said in other posts, (Camera wont strafe oblique, so it takes way longer time to get where you want, it's ineffective.. and so on), It'd be really grateful.

[Goblin Wizard]

Originally Posted by ThisIsRealWarfare

Goblin Wizard, I was wondering, as you seem to know about scripts and stuff: Do you possibly know how to change camera strafing? You've probably read what I said in other posts, (Camera wont strafe oblique, so it takes way longer time to get where you want, it's ineffective.. and so on), It'd be really grateful.

I've tried to do this but till now no success. If I figure it out I let you know.

[Grim.Reaper]

Originally Posted by ThisIsRealWarfare

Go for changing yourself. They might patch it, but if you prefer a quick fix of it, go for the scripts
I will absolutely do that myself. Thank you very much Goblin Wizard for the scripts!

I am staying strong to see if the developers correct, unless somehow this is really historically accurate Let me know how things work out for you.

[ThisIsRealWarfare]

Does anybody know which tools are needed in order to open the files? (Aix files)
I've no idea, already been looking around but I cant find them

[mitra]

Originally Posted by Grim.Reaper

I don't doubt and have never doubted that is how the developer's scripted it since that is what is happening in the game, I am questioning whether that is accurate or not. Sure, I could update the scripts myself, but that is not something I really want to do for games I buy.

I don't know the precise distance between my units, but visually seemed very close and I was on top of a hill looking down. It would seem there would be some additional advantage for that as well.

You must see the efficiency of irregulars archers in term of battle economy, also if in multiplayer is more clear: they are many for single unit and they are cheaper. With the cost of a single elite archer or horse archer I can take 9 irregular archers. When i use them in battle I never make 1 to 1 shoot but I concentrate the fire of 4-5 units on a single target (especially if unarmoured): this mean salvos of 400-500 arrows on a single target of 100-200 men. This mean at medium range a wounded can be hit also two or three times: this create three penalties: woundeds, deads, heavy arrows rain. after two or three salvos a unarmoured unit can start to blink white, causing moral penalties also to near units.
Western archers are also the only weapons to oppose to light horse archers, because these one have more arrows than foot archers and crossbowmen load too slow, so a good players can be out of range much before the crossbow is loaded. Irregular compensate with number and rapidity.

FOr make a comparison: at Crecy the english bownmen launch near a million of arrows during the battle, but the bigger part of losses was caused by close combat. At Agincourtn the arrows create chaos and woundeds but the knights dead in the initial charge were only 3.

Elite archers are yes destructives but only 50 for units and very expensives, you can take them only if your penalize your heavy infantry or heavy cavalry.