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#1
11-23-2011, 02:43 AM
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4) in skills.txt for necromancy you listed skeleton/zombie/ghost per skill lvl, what does it do?
5) in xyz_babies.txt kid`s bonus filter { belligerent=ally } pbonus=defense,0,6,0,-100,0,0 dbonus= rbonus= attack_on= attack_off= Missing units for +6 def bonus, Or you planed to give 6 def with every kid ?. And why setting sp_unit_lead_archer 2 times in kid`s bonuses ? Every kid which gives -lds for some unit have it listed 2 times in mods{}. Exp galthran(first kid) gives bonus for archer/skeleton -3% lds, and then again on bottom of list -26% lds. So how much does it lower unit leadership (does it stack) ? With zombie_rina and 4 kids, you can get -34lds% for all undead (for some units even more), and with necromancy skill this can go to -50%. A bit OP ? Why does every rina kid give lds for all undead? 6) kid_voy from feanora should place to mirabela, sea battle bonus seems logical. kid_tazar holy s...t  kid_young_sandro wtf is he doing in feanora babies ??? 7) diana babies kid_ shiva why not make bonus to all draogns, instead mixing all units, and only EGD ? kid_kalt/lacus did you plan to give 9% magic dmg, and 9% poison res? Why not same bonus. 9% magic dmg,res, and other kid 9%poison dmg/res sp_power_inc=count,9 i guess this is bonus% for destruction skill sp_power_mod=count,1 but what is this ??? 8 ) xeona babies for kid_dace in the mods set sp_lead_unit_horseman/knight/orc2, you miss _ in those lines. 9) wives.txt for mirabela no need for human lvl 5 unit bonus. No human 5th lvl TL 10) maybe scale differently -lds% for wives, for 1st lvl units 15%, 2nd/13% , 3rd/11%, 4th/9% , 5th/7% , and why feanora have lowest lds reduction ? She give bonus for so few units, at least should be useful with them  11) you completely missed griffins in any wife lds reduction/stats bonus And in the end rina is seriously overpowered, all her kids give lds for all undead. Change it so every kid, gives -lds% for some unit, not all race. Xeona also with 4 kids all unis in your army could have +40% dmg bonus and +4fire dmg which is to much. Last edited by Fatt_Shade; 11-23-2011 at 02:47 AM. 
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#2
11-23-2011, 01:00 PM
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Good comments!
Interesting comments!
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filter {...} - this means that you can make this apply to the units specified by the filter. If you do not have anything here, then this will apply to every unit on the battlefield. Valid values: belligerent = ally or enemy to apply bonus to race = human, orc, etc. to apply bonus to level = value or level <= value, etc. level of units to apply bonus to unit = list of unit(s) to apply bonus to pbonus=... - use this for increasing unit statistics dbonus=... - use this for increasing unit damage rbonus=... - use this for increasing unit resistance attack_on= - I have not used this, but I'm guessing that you can enable certain unit's attacks with this (I'll have to experiment with this) attack_off= - I have not used this either, but I'm guessing that you can disable certain unit's attacks with this (this could be very powerful if an enemy hero can disable certain of your unit's abilities). Note that there are 3 values after defense, then -100, and then two 0's. Here is the meaning of this (for any statistic): pbonus, dbonus, rbonus = stat_name, absolute, percent_current, percent_base, duration, delete_on_damage, priority Where: stat_name = pbonus = attack, defense, krit, health, initiative, moral (note that there is no "e" on the end of that), hitback, and speed. dbonus and rbonus = astral, fire, magic, physical, poison abosulte = if you place a value here, then it is added to (or subtracted from) that statistic directly. percent_current = if you place a value here, then it scales the current value by that percent. percent_base = if you place a value here, then is scales the base value by that percent. duration = how long the effect lasts, -100 means that it lasts forever. delete_on_damage = true / false, whether to remove the modifier when the unit dies. priority = the priority of this effect. Reference: Attack King's Bounty Library So in the case above, that child will apply a very modest +6% (multiply defense by 1.06) to all of your unit's defense. For example a unit with defense = 50 will have a defense = 53. I think you can see that this is a very modest bonus. Quote:
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Nonetheless, I've been thinking long and hard about this and realized that there is a possibility of getting this although it is low. How low? 2/19 * 1/18 * 1/17 * 2/16 = 0.0043% so you'd have to play 23,256 times to get the best Leadership Reduction Requirement bonus to occur just once! So this is pretty much a non-issue if you can get this game then enjoy the rarity! By the way, here are the other probabilities: 2/19 * 1/18 = 0.292% or 1 in 342 games for best 2 of them. 2/19 * 1/18 * 1/17 = 0.00344% or 1 in 2,907 games for best 3 of them. or 2/19 * 1/18 * 2/17 = 0.0688% or 1 in 1.454 games for close to best 3 of them. but 2/19 * 1/18 * 3/17 = 0.103% or 1 in 969 games for somewhere between close to best 3 of them and best 3 of them. Also, if you're wondering, the chance of getting -12% LR to Undead from Rina babies: 13/19 * 12/18 * 11/17 * 10/16 = 18.4% or about 1 in 6 games! Quote:
Mirabella is human and so she's only going to have human babies. I put a lot of thought into which wives have which babies and I tried to make the combinations somewhat plausible. Quote:
By the way if you see something like that let me know because it would be wrong! Quote:
 Oh yah, and I forgot about Dragon Mutare. Mutare is Gerda's baby, but for Dragon Mutare she's Xeona's! I guess you and a demoness can have a dragon baby!!! Why not? Or maybe the stork mixed up that one as well! Quote:
Kalt and Lacus are PlanesWalkers in HOMM3. This wasn't too tough of a choice to decide which wife to give these heroes to because Kalt is an Ice Elemental and Lacus a Water Elemental and since Diana is a River Fairy it made sense. Both HOMM3 Heroes applied bonuses to Ice and Water Elementals. Unfortunately there are no Ice and Water Elementals in KB so I decided that they'd give bonuses to units with physical (ice) and magic (water) damage +9% and then also (water based) give resistances to physical (ice) and poison (water). Why magic for damage and poison for resistance? Well normally I'd probably make it the same, but none of the units that Diana gives bonuses to normally have poison damage and so 0 * 1.09 = 0. So it would be useless, but Sprites, Unicorns, etc. do magic damage and so that's why. So those are correct. There are other PlanesWalkers as well and so the mother I picked makes sense for all those as well. Quote:
The way they work is sp_power_inc is the power to add to the +10% to spell power for every 7 Intellect. So this bonus would give +19% - wow! Now the sp_power_mod is divided by two and subtracted from 7 so it would be 7-0.5=6.5. So that would be +19% to spell power for every 6.5 Intellect. That's a nice boost and babies with these stack. Chance of getting the babies to max this out (one baby has Advanced Scholarship, the other 4 Basic)? 1/19 * 4/18 * 3/17 * 2/16 = 0.0258% or 1 out of 3,876 games to get max. 1/19 * 4/18 * 3/17 = 0.206% or 1 out of ~484 games to get the best 3 of them. 1/19 * 4/18 = 1.27% or 1 out of ~86 games to get the best 2 of them. This is a bit borderline here with getting the best two of them. Something to consider... Quote:
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Also note that there is more than simply Leadership Reduction bonuses - Feanora's kids have bonuses that apply to more areas. Quote:
Every unit is represented with a child bonus somewhere - I was very sure about this since in the end I had a few duplicates and needed to come up with a unique bonus for babies that had similar unit bonuses to prevent too much stacking. Quote:
I encourage you to play it and let me know what you end up with in regards to the total Undead Leadership requirement reduction from Rina's Babies. I'm guessing you'll be somewhere between -12 to -18% and if you're fortunate, you'll get 1 child with a reduction to a couple of Undead units. Look at Feanora's baby Korbac: -27% Leadership Requirements to Dragonflies (both Lake and Fire) and +7% Defense to all units. That's 1% better than Rina's Galthran Leadership Requirement to Skeleton Warriors and Skeleton Archers and 1% better than his defense to all units. Also instead of -3 Leadership Requirements to Undead, Korbac adds +1 Initiative to all units. Which is better? -3% Leadership Requirement to Undead or +1 Initiative to all units? You'll see that Feanora's values are higher for every equivalent value of Rina's babies. The areas I actually may need to look at are the Skill Leadership Reductions, because these have no probability - just get all the prerequisite skills and runes and you're good to go. Quote:
Other probabilities: 2/27 * 1/26 * 2/25 = 0.0228% or 1 in ~4388 games 2/27 * 1/26 = 0.285% or 1 in ~351 games By the way, the only way to know if something's overpowered is to try it out and see. As I was learning how to mod the game, I needed to shift my paradigm of thought from the original The Legend game because of how much harder I've made it. Looking at the values does not tell the complete story! I've also perturbed the values both low and high when setting the values to get a good idea of whether something is too low or too high and have hit the sweet spot with most stuff since I've played it. Probability is a huge player when determining whether the stacking bonuses can get out of hand and I encourage you to consider the probability for even getting two babies you'd like to get for a wife. The minimum probability of repitition for the wife with the fewest children having 2 children of your choice is a 1 in 342 chance! Playing the game is the only way to find out for certain and I do think it is fun to have a game every now and then where you have the possibility of really good bonuses, but as you can see, only a few people will ever experience the opportunity! Also, if you're understanding what I'm saying look at the replayability value! You will most likely get a different set of children every time you replay the game! You can replay over and over and over again and you'll probably never see the exact same 4 children from a wife - ever! Nonetheless, I'll consider what you've said and we'll go from there - thanks for the comments! By the way, I'm considering the following skill leadership reduction changes: 1. Glory - reduction does not apply to Undead. Since the skill is in the Paladin Tree I've considered removing Undead from the Leadership Reduction Requirements bonus. 2. Necromancy - change it from -5, -10, and -15% to -2, -5, and -10%. 3. Ranged Specialist - change it from -5, -10, and -15% to -2, -5, and -10%. 4. Archmage - change it from -5, -10, and -15% to -2, -5, and -10%. From skills: 1. Skeleton Archer: -10% + -15% +-15% = -40%! 2. Necromancer: -10% +-15% +-15% = -40%! Changes would drop both of these to: 1. Skeleton Archer: -10% +-10% = -20% 2. Necromancer: -10% +-10% = -20% Which would be half of what it is now and probably a lot better. I've made the fixes to kid_dace in xeona_babies.txt and that will be in my next update - thanks again for pointing that out! Okay, feel free to provide any additional comments - I also hope you've learned a bit more about modding!  /C\/C\
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#3
11-23-2011, 05:06 PM
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4) This is in the original game and I'm not even sure if the game actually uses it, but I left it alone when modding the skill.
Captain what does this DO ? I dont know men, but leave it alone  5) I know about that stats, but my mistake i read it wrong, thought you give absolute value there. Thx for clearing it out anyway. 6) about rina`s kids, every give min 3% lds for all undead, so with 4 kids, and her 6%, +necromancy it = minimum 33%, without partial lds bonus form each kid, and without glory skill. That`s worst case scenario, in best you could 2*9+14+6(kids)+6(rina)+15(necromancy)+10glory= wait for it ... 69% lds reduction for whole undead race. With all stats bonus from kids/rina and imagine warrior with some 20k lds, with that army (skeleton archer=4 lds or less). Maybe i think still in CW/AP mod, because there is late game everything % better then absolute value : 1000lds is sick bonus early game, but later when hero have 20k+ lds 10% for undead(or any other) race is much better because it`s equal to 2000+ lds at that time much better then. I`ll try to see what happens, because i took rina and we are waiting for our first little undead toddler to come along Feanora : kid_young_sandro i didnt mean mistake, just he gives lds for undead, and she`s nature creature, bonus for neutrals and some human unit. It doesn`t feel right. kid_voy i thought to move him to mirabella because all his sea stats bonus, mirabella=pirate, no other reason. Mirabella : kid_aislinn have this string in mod{} sp_kid_aislinn=count,1 What does it do ? 7) about that i just thought to have 1 kid give bonus magic dmg/res and other poison dmg/res, not mix them up. sp_power_inc= sp_power_mod= nice idea, thx for info. Ok so far that`s it, i`ll report if find anything else take care ppl
Last edited by Fatt_Shade; 11-23-2011 at 10:27 PM.
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#4
11-23-2011, 10:50 PM
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Keep the discussion going!
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I'm going to hammer you on this - probability, probability, probability! It is irrelevant to talk about the max since is highly improbable. If you can't get past this, then you're going to keep tripping over max. I hope you don't play the lottery and think that your 1$ investment means you're going to win 10's of millions of dollars, but that's the argument you're trying to make. It could happen, but it is so improbable that why not let someone enjoy their win? Now the norm is something to talk about and that is why I'm considering the skill changes so that with Rina's kids you'll usually see somewhere between -18 to -24% LR to Undead. Glory no longer will apply and then Necromancers and Skeleton Archers will still get -20% due to the Ranged Specialist / Archmage and Necromancy. So those units could get a really good bonus of -44% which is pretty good and then you could get Galthran or Moandor for even better LR: -70% for Skeleton Archers and -55% for Necromancers both incredibly awesome and maybe too high. Now if we focus on either case, which is 1 out of 19 plays then we can consider making a change on this basis. I have actually thought about Rina's (and all the wives for that matter) children -LR bonuses a lot and have often considered reducing it more. You're tipping me more towards a change to her, but I'll think about it some more. One other thing I want to point out is that -Leadership Requirements can be offset by other bonuses so don't be so enamored with it. I encourage you to keep trying to find stuff like this as there are many permutations and I've tried to think of most of them and the important point is to determine their probability and then play it and see how it really pans out! Quote:
Don't forget that you can't change Rina into a Zombie while your waiting for your first child (or any children for that matter). Same goes with Feanora and Frog Feanora, the battle counter for children only increases while you're in their normal form. After you have all the babies that you want to have for those wives then you can transform them (or in Feanora's case you have to not talk to her for 10 battles to get her to transform). Can't wait to hear how it goes for you and Rina! By the way, are you playing Warrior on Impossible? Or let me know which hero class and difficulty level you're playing. Quote:
Mom? Guess who's coming to dinner? My friend, Noric! Quote:
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Well, thanks again for your comments! Also, do me a favor and check to see whether you can Resurrect the Undead with the Resurrection Spell + Necromancy Skill Level 1. I have not gotten around to testing this out and so it may not work! Don't forget that it will still have the same level requirement restrictions: Level 1 - Units Level 1-2, Level 2, Units Level 1-3, and Level 3 - Units Level 1-4. I'm also going to make the skill changes like I mentioned in the previous post and I'll think more about the Wife + Baby -Leadership Requirement bonuses some more as this is an area that I've given a lot of thought to and I find that I return to it to question whether or not the bonus values are right from time to time. Keep questioning what I'm doing, too, as that's the only way to help me think outside the box I've made! /C\/C\ Last edited by MattCaspermeyer; 11-23-2011 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Fixed the quotes...
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#5
11-24-2011, 05:22 AM
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Minor Tweaks for now...
Okay, I thought about this a little more and have made some minor tweaks for now.
I looked at what I did for the Necromancy Skill (HOMM3 Necromancy Skill) and before it decreased Leadership Requirement of Undead and added to the Power of Necro Call. Now it will only decrease LR of Undead - the Necro Call bonus will be removed. Two of Rina's HOMM3 babies have Animated Dead. This acted just like the HOMM3 Necromancy skill where it decreased LR of Undead and added to the power of Necro Call. Now it will only add to the power of Necro Call, so two of the Heroes that were -6% LR to Undead now drop to -3% LR to Undead. Next I looked at Isra who had Expert Necromancy. A bonus to Undead Spiders was not in the game so she also had a bonus to Undead Spiders; however, this effectively gave her 4 skill points instead of 3, so what I've done is dropped her Expert Necromancy to Advanced + Undead Spiders. So now she goes from -9 to -6% LR Undead. Next Vidomina had Expert Necromancy and Bone Dragons, once again 4 skill points instead of 3. So I moved the Bone Dragons to Lord Haart (since his HOMM3 bonus is Black Knights, and Tamika has Black Knights already and no one had Bone Dragons) so that Vidomina now has just Expert Necromancy with -9% LR to Undead and then Lord Haart has Advanced Necromancy and Bone Dragons. So now there is Vidomina with -9%, Isra and Lord Haart with -6%, and everyone else with -3% LR to Undead. So now the total is -24% +Rina's -6% so 30% max, but the chance of getting it is 1/19 * 2/18 * 1/17 * 15/16 = 0.0322% or 1 in 3101. So you'll more than likely just get -18% to -21% (including Rina's bonus). I know this doesn't seem like much of a change, but think about the fact that Rina's children's other bonuses are very limited due to the Necromancy bonuses. So I'm thinking a minor tweak like this might go a long ways. The proof is in the pudding - I need you to playtest it and see how you're doing late in the game. I'm a little worried that Rina might not have enough bonuses for you to last and you might have to swtich to another wife. I know that Skeleton Archers are mowed down with reckless abandon and so I actually think you might need a lot to do well. Also, Undead do not get any morale bonuses and so I think you may need an advantage like this. Rina's kids are kind of quantity over quality, but I'm hoping you're able to be successful with her late in the game. I've also made the skill changes I've mentioned previously... Should be able to send out the update to you soon... /C\/C\
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#6
11-24-2011, 07:17 PM
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You were right about probability, but i`m right about %, got 4 kids with -3lds%(stupid aislinn with evil book bonus, should have smothered him on birth but undead baby i dont think it would matter to him
with rina, and necromancy it gets -33%, with glory 10% more.I play mage impossible (only way i roll , got aislinn, sandro, xsi, charna. But problem is i`m on sunset islands with nice undead setup, with no undead units available My how much did AP/CW spoil me with dragons available in rusty anchor , now i`m suffering with stupid archmage/griffin shield/tank combo with some support. I really miss royal griffins, paladins, demonolog ...All in all, i think rina will be weak later in game, so i guess i`ll kick her and pick some else as you suggested. But as it is rina is first which you can take for wife, so i`ll take them as they come for testing. And Q : why does wives give bonus att/def and moral ? With +1 moral every unit they already give att/def get more stats. With +1 initiative/speed it`s a bit much. 1) Mirabella you miss griffin for +1 moral (they get initiative, and speed but not moral). 2) Did you change something in Holy indulgence quest ? From western islands, you must go back to swamp to get holy pardon from priest. I get it for 4420 exp, and some item. All other quests if that rank are 400-500 exp reward, so i ask about this high reward is it mistake, or was it like that in original? OMG i just found ghosts, and it`s ridiculous. Charna unlimited retaliations, for ghosts 40lds/7initiative/6speed/60hp/7-11dmg DDDDD NO loss already 100% sure.I`m going around with 2x50 ghosts, and 3x15 inquisitors to control their numbers and rage generating. Last edited by Fatt_Shade; 11-24-2011 at 09:31 PM.
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#7
11-25-2011, 08:34 AM
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Keep playing Rina!
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Hey, by the way, don't diss your Evil Book - it'll come in handy once your mage gets more powerful!Also, don't count Glory any more for Undead - hopefully you're playing with the newest update I sent you... By the way, didn't you get some of the Undead units from the shipwrecks and then Castle Karmage (or whatever it's called with Enimem or whatever his name is)? You should have been able to at least get some Skeletons, Zombies, and Vampires early as a guess... Quote:
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I was a little puzzled by it a couple of playthrough's back, but I'm pretty sure that's what you get. I'll double check to see if the values in the *.QST indicate a lot of experience for that one. Quote:
Another thing about the Ghosts, is that they used to have -50% Fire Resistance, but I set it back to 0% because I thought I was being too harsh with them. Let me know if you feel that I should reinstate their Fire Resistance Penalty. Let me know when you suffer your first loss, and don't count losses before you got your Undead army setup. I'll about guarantee, though, that you won't get no loss with that setup. In fact I challenge you to try to get no loss and let me know how far you go before your first loss. Have fun and keep playing! By the way, your comments have been invaluable so keep them coming! By the way, I'm not sure if you use Enchanted Hero, but I've just uncovered the bug in the README where I mention the possibility of a unit's damage going really high and hope to fix it shortly. Also, I neglected to prevent it from being cast on the Undead, so be careful using it because the spell might accidentally cast Bless (negative to Undead) or Heal (damage to your Undead) on your unit with that spell. I'll add the necessarily change to make it so you can't cast it on the Undead. /C\/C\ Last edited by MattCaspermeyer; 11-25-2011 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Added Evil Book Comment
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#8
11-24-2011, 10:47 PM
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Matt, I haven't read all the posts here, but my experience in an Impossible difficulty game with a Warrior was that a -10% leadership requirements bonus I modded in was far too much since the Undeads are already overpowered IMO, and the game was a breeze. I'm not sure how much harder your mod is than the original, but that's just an FYI, as I recently completed an all Undead game.
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#9
11-25-2011, 08:41 AM
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Hey, thanks!
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I think, though, you'll find that Rina will be pretty good for a while and then you'll start to run into stacks with higher Initiative and then you'll start to suffer losses. Also the ghosts are going to be a problem to keep under control so you'll have to do a good job managing them. We'll see how Fatt_Shade's playthrough goes, because he has no idea what's in store for him!  /C\/C\
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Hybrid Mode
