How to fly a Spit 1a correctly!?

[Robo.]

I agree, Tomcat and thank you for you reply, I appreciate that. Although the FMs in game are off in many aspects, the basic characteristics are there already - and simply as that, the 109 will outclimb anything IF flown correctly.

As for the topic - Flying for the RAF, I very much prefer the Hurricane (Rotol prop.) as it's faster than Spitfire Mk.Ia and it climbs better. I know this is weird and historically incorrect, but that's how it is in 1.05. Although the Spitfire has some advantages over the Hurricane (control response, high speed handling etc), some might prefer either due to their style of flying. Testing both on ATAG, Hurricane outran and outclimbed the Mk.Ia at any height. (Hurricane had slightly less fuel, but was still much heavier than Spitty)

Spitfire and Hurricane are both good enough to give 109s some grief, but mind you that if you're a good RAF pilot and you meet a equally good 109 pilot who sees you, he's gonna win unless he makes some mistake. You can make him do that mistake of course, but as for 1.05, capabilities of his aircraft will allow him to win and keep the upper hand and should he be getting in trouble, he can disengage from the fight at any time. I am not saying that flying a 109 'correctly' and be succesful in it is easy though, quite the opposite.

Above is my opinion based on the experience on ATAG, your results may vary

[Daliaraptor]

Thanks a lot so far for all this tips and tricks but it doesent help.
I cant even chase a bomber in free fall, which i have shoot down, gues the Engines were haevy damaged or dead , the crew alraedy ejected. This bomber escaped with out a Pilot in the cockpit and i made a power dive?????
So i researched just a litle bit about historical correctness. And there was as far as i know now, no Plane that made a faster power dive than the Spit.
Which Plane the fastest was is really difficulty to find out. Some sources say the Spit was faster below 4000 feet some say it was faster in high altitude.
But anyway i think first of all is gameplay and "fun" even its a simulator, in real live is it different either. So pleas ATAG put the 2a in it and let the RAF Strike back

Or im totaly wrong???

[bw_wolverine]

There's a very simple thing Spitfire and Hurricane pilots can do in the game to avoid being on the unhappy end of a 109's bullets that most pilots do not do because they're either impatient or do not plan ahead:

Don't engage an enemy fighter unless you have a significant advantage.

Obviously there will be times when you don't have a choice. Minimize those!

When I was flying by myself mostly I took to flying very high (always 16k ft or more) while looking for contacts and usually higher than that (around 20k).

I may not have found as many enemy fighters, but those I did find were far less likely to have an advantage on me. In many more cases than not, I came out the victor.

Then I started flying on comms. Grouping up with others, I would usually take a wingman role and not lead the flight. People like to fly low and fast over to enemy bases. They like to go in at max 8k ft because it's easier to find enemy planes. They see a plane and they engage it. It's like crack cocaine to a junkie on withdrawl. MUST. ATTACK. DOT!

Needless to say, I didn't fare as well flying in those situations. I'm not the greatest pilot out there. I have a hard time seeing those fighters before they see me. Unfortunately, at these altitudes and situations once a fight starts, the enemy had the advantage more often than not.

So to any Spitfire/Hurricane pilot who is frustrated by fast flying fast climbing 109s, I say don't play their game! They WANT you to try and beat them at their game. Don't play it! Fly high. Fly smart. And for the love of all that's holy, pick and choose your engagements with thought. You don't have to dive down on that 109 right away the moment you see him. Observe, think, act.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by bw_wolverine

There's a very simple thing Spitfire and Hurricane pilots can do in the game to avoid being on the unhappy end of a 109's bullets that most pilots do not do because they're either impatient or do not plan ahead:

Don't engage an enemy fighter unless you have a significant advantage.

Obviously there will be times when you don't have a choice. Minimize those!

When I was flying by myself mostly I took to flying very high (always 16k ft or more) while looking for contacts and usually higher than that (around 20k).

I may not have found as many enemy fighters, but those I did find were far less likely to have an advantage on me. In many more cases than not, I came out the victor.

Then I started flying on comms. Grouping up with others, I would usually take a wingman role and not lead the flight. People like to fly low and fast over to enemy bases. They like to go in at max 8k ft because it's easier to find enemy planes. They see a plane and they engage it. It's like crack cocaine to a junkie on withdrawl. MUST. ATTACK. DOT!

Needless to say, I didn't fare as well flying in those situations. I'm not the greatest pilot out there. I have a hard time seeing those fighters before they see me. Unfortunately, at these altitudes and situations once a fight starts, the enemy had the advantage more often than not.

So to any Spitfire/Hurricane pilot who is frustrated by fast flying fast climbing 109s, I say don't play their game! They WANT you to try and beat them at their game. Don't play it! Fly high. Fly smart. And for the love of all that's holy, pick and choose your engagements with thought. You don't have to dive down on that 109 right away the moment you see him. Observe, think, act.

This is a good post, and highlights a fact that I think others miss quite a lot. One aircraft on its own is worthless. Two aircraft as a pair are effective. That is why most modern tactical documents refer to a pair of aircraft as an "element" i.e. the smallest divisible unit in air combat.

In my 109 and see a lone Spitfire below me? I start rubbing my hands together gleefully because I know that even if I get co-E with him, I can dive for safety.

In my 109 and see a pair of Spitfires below me? I think twice about attacking because I know that they can play the game where every time I dive on one, the other one climbs.

[_79_dev]

~S~

From my experience: it is not plane flying and winning dogfights, it is human pilot who makes decisions ( quick or slow), has situation awareness (more or less of it), shooting skills , and so on and on... Dogfight is war so he wins who make less mistakes... You ask in the post how to fly Spit? Ask Your self a question how do other aircrafts perform and first of all know Your limits. If You want to know how to catch 109 in a climb, grab 109 and check if it's possible and when is it possible. If someone says " FM is overworked because I dove on 109 but could't catch it up" or " Spitfire do his 360 in a blink of eye and I have no chance to run away" that sound for me like some of pilots have not enough imagination and knowledge to fly WWII plane, or has too many bad habits. So You want to know the truth.... grab a plane and take it for the spin, record your flights and analyse mistakes...Lern from other pilots mistakes if possible... Anyway everyone has his own way to fly airplane so rely only on Your own experience as much as You can...

Something to read:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html

and

http://www.av8n.com/how/

~S~

[AKA_Tenn]

seems your starting to get a bit off topic here...

in real life u gotta worry bout a lot more stuff... individual aircraft (not type, but single individual 1 of a kind), because not one plane will be performing the same as any other, due to a mechanic with a hangover, or a badly hammered rivet etc... and you can't be assuming your talking about someone who's average in the 109 against someone whos average in a spit... the only thing you can really say, due to the facts about the physics engine we're working with here is... the 109 climbs better, the spit turns better... so to fly the spit, your job is to force the 109 to turn, not climb with it, and vicea versa with the 109

[jimbop]

Robo. - good post at #27, thanks.

[Daliaraptor]

Hey guys

So im back after some Testing and practice as well.
I tryed to trimm the spit 1a always like a fish in the water (verry good tip). I made smooth turns to take my energie with me. I tryed to atack from higher altitude. I did actually everything what you guys told me if i dident knew it before.
But no chance against a ME4 so far.
So, after geting verry frustrated, i took a Hurri Rotol.
OMG the Messerschmid's came down like flys. I think it depends a lot of how good is the pilot, i agree. But even the best F1 Pilot need a F1 Car to win.
So, for all those who have problems to catch up every ME even with a bad pilot, take the Hurri Rotoll.

Cheers and thanks a lot for all your help and good tips which i use now in dogfight.

See you in the air.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

This is a good post, and highlights a fact that I think others miss quite a lot. One aircraft on its own is worthless. Two aircraft as a pair are effective. That is why most modern tactical documents refer to a pair of aircraft as an "element" i.e. the smallest divisible unit in air combat.

Very much so, but that's all general facts. Of course a good pair of experienced pilots on comms is worth 4 guys and they usually do lot of damage.

I took it as this thread was more about specific tactics in a Spitfire, e.g. general advantages and disadvantages. What you say and what you wrote before (keep the speed, gain alt) is valid of any fighter aircraft. I agree that against the 109s, the cooperation on RAF side is perhaps more essential in order to compensate to the superior performance of the Emil.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by Daliaraptor

So i researched just a litle bit about historical correctness. And there was as far as i know now, no Plane that made a faster power dive than the Spit.

If I remember correctly, that particular spitfire was heavily modified (special propeller, etc.) and was not representative of the 'service' spitfires that fought on a daily basis. While it's true that the late-model Spitfire has one of the highest critical Mach numbers of period fighters, there's more to fighter performance than that.

So pleas ATAG put the 2a in it and let the RAF Strike back

The Spit 2a is the only aircraft getting historical performance at the moment. All others underperform greatly. As a result the 2a is game-breaking in the sense that it outperforms the 109 in every aspect.

109 pilots attacking a Spit 2a must surprise the spit and kill it on the first pass, or die. Once the pilot of the 2a knows you're there, he can out-climb, out-turn, and out-run you.

As it stands, the combination of Hurricane/Spitfire Mk1a is very potent when flown well. If it seems that the 109 is overpowered, that is because so many rookie pilots insist on doing tight circles on the deck, or invading France at low altitude.