BOB a mistake ? --- The Battle of France

[tools4fools]

As for BoB/BoF dispute:

- in my opinion the BOB is a much better choice for a first for several reasons: it is more popular and well known, therefore sales will be better...good for Oleg and team, good for us as it ensures tehre will be many more add-ons for SoW
- BoB needs less planes to be modeled to have a quite good set or aircraft.
- Hurricanes, Spitfires, Me's, He's, Do's, Stukas, etc, etc, almost all planes were widely use in other theaters and can be used again in future add-ones.
Like Africa - you add new maps, few more Italian planes, first US planes (P-40), few more German and British flyable which were Ai only in BoB. With comparatively little use of resources a new add-on. Plus 'backwards' it will make BoB more complete.

- For this modular approach I think BoB is much better choice of than BoF.

In BoF there is such a large number of different FRENCH aircraft needed that it takes a lot of resources. And none of them can be used much outside of BoF much. MS 406 in Finland indeed plus the Fokker, D520 already very little other use. Many many other important planes with almost no further use: Fairey battle, the lot of French bombers, Bloch fighter, etc.
In that sense BoB is better suited - and that's from me who loves the crap planes, the underdogs and the oddities (love those Farman bombers and the other odd bombers of the French).
If there ever is a BoF I would fly for France 95% of time me thinks...

Great sequence after SoW I would love to see would be:
Africa - add more italian, more flyable brit and german; first US planes.
Russia - (early war) add russian, add more US.
Pacifc - (early war) we got the brit planes by now and some US. So add more US and japanese.

The start all over again for mid and very late war...
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[heywooood]

is this where people come to bash the BoB and wish Oleg had done something else....?

I wish people would get a grip already - thanks Oleg and don't let BoB quit - theres no one else can do that job

I think starting such a complainers thread is worse than starting a new flight sim based on BoB...that guy's amazing.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by heywooood

is this where people come to bash the BoB and wish Oleg had done something else....?

No its not. --- This thread is about the Battle of France and to try and raise interest in a BoB add-on, because no sim has seriously addressed it before. There has been serious and heated debate about the reasons for the allied defeat.

Try reading more of the thread before jumping to conclusions please.

The Battle of France would make a great add-on. The air forces on each side were reasonably balanced, at least in numbers and there is great scope for historic ground support action -- more so than in BoB.

I cant wait for BoB and have, like everybody else been drooling over the meagre scraps of information released, but that doesnt stop me hoping that after BoB we might get something to cover BoF.

[Rama]

Originally Posted by tools4fools

As for BoB/BoF dispute:
In BoF there is such a large number of different FRENCH aircraft needed that it takes a lot of resources. And none of them can be used much outside of BoF much. MS 406 in Finland indeed plus the Fokker, D520 already very little other use. Many many other important planes with almost no further use: Fairey battle, the lot of French bombers, Bloch fighter, etc.

I quite disagree with this.

For main French fighters, we got:
- Morane MS406, used by Luftwaffe (Training), Finland, Bulgaria, Croatia, Italy and Switzerland (ok.. the last didn't saw much fights)
- Dewoitine D520, used by Luftwaffe (training), Italy, Bulgaria and Romania (and a bit by Free French in North Africa)
- Hawk H75, used by Finland, Norway, RAF (Mohawks IV), Siam (fighting against French MS406), and USA (a few P36 did fight in Pearl Harbor)
The only remaining main fighter is the Bloch MB152, who could be AI only

For main French Bombers, we got:
- Loire et Olivier LeO451, used as light transport by Luftwaffe, and by Italy (the less used plane outside BoF, but important for BoF)
- Glenn Martin 167F, used by RAF as Maryland MkI in Egypt and Malta fights, and who was followed by Martin 187 (RAF Baltimore), widely used in North Africa theater, and who is not very different from 167F.
- Douglas DB7, used by RAF as Boston, and who was further developped under designation A-20... widelly used by Allies.
Most of other bombers weren't largelly used by French and can be ignored, or only AI (for the Breguet 690/693 for example)

Other than these, it stay only the observation planes (Potez 63x and Bloch MB.174) who could be AI.
That's 6 flyable planes (5 of them usable by other nationalities on other theater) and 4 AI... certainly not a small deal.... but also not THAT large.

Of course you could add a lot of crapy/largelly unused (even during BoF) planes... but there's no good reason to.

[JVM]

Hello!

Didn't the Br 693 see a lot of combat as ground support and light bombers? Granted they were slaughtered but they wrote a glorious if bloody page of the FAF...

JV

[Rama]

Br690/693 should be at least AI.
It saw less missions than Leo451 or GM 167F... and it would be quite frustrating to fly with only role of low level bombing (no bombsight)... so for flyable I think it should have a lower priority than the 2 other... but's that's only my oppinion (and not very usefull oppinion... since BoF will not be developped if not by third party).
I'm sure that some would want the Amiot 354 also... even if it appeared very late and in a very few number during BoF, and saw very little fighting...

[HarryKlein]

IMO a more realistic project would be from Mers el-Kébir to Torch (1940 to 42 ),
at least for a 3rd party add-on :

P 36 Fly
D.520 Fly

Leo 451 Fly/AI
GM 167F AI

(optional :
MS 406 Fly
Potez 650 AI
Potez 63/11 Bloch 174 AI )

2 or 3 flyable and 1 or 2 IA are not impossible to do
But the main problem still the lack of datas for both CG model and FM :/

[MB_Avro_UK]

There is more chance of financial success with a BoB sim than a BoF.

The BoB is well known internationally. We here are military 'junkies'. Nothing wrong with that of course

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

[Chivas]

Frankly Oleg would be crazy to start the SOW with the Battle of France. It has no recognition factor.

[tools4fools]

Originally Posted by Rama

I quite disagree with this.

For main French fighters, we got:
- Morane MS406, used by Luftwaffe (Training), Finland, Bulgaria, Croatia, Italy and Switzerland (ok.. the last didn't saw much fights)
- Dewoitine D520, used by Luftwaffe (training), Italy, Bulgaria and Romania (and a bit by Free French in North Africa)
- Hawk H75, used by Finland, Norway, RAF (Mohawks IV), Siam (fighting against French MS406), and USA (a few P36 did fight in Pearl Harbor)
The only remaining main fighter is the Bloch MB152, who could be AI only

For main French Bombers, we got:
- Loire et Olivier LeO451, used as light transport by Luftwaffe, and by Italy (the less used plane outside BoF, but important for BoF)
- Glenn Martin 167F, used by RAF as Maryland MkI in Egypt and Malta fights, and who was followed by Martin 187 (RAF Baltimore), widely used in North Africa theater, and who is not very different from 167F.
- Douglas DB7, used by RAF as Boston, and who was further developped under designation A-20... widelly used by Allies.
Most of other bombers weren't largelly used by French and can be ignored, or only AI (for the Breguet 690/693 for example)

Other than these, it stay only the observation planes (Potez 63x and Bloch MB.174) who could be AI.
That's 6 flyable planes (5 of them usable by other nationalities on other theater) and 4 AI... certainly not a small deal.... but also not THAT large.

Of course you could add a lot of crapy/largelly unused (even during BoF) planes... but there's no good reason to.

Spitfire, Hurricane, Me 109, Me 110 still are much more important than French fighters and much MORE USEFUL in future add-ons after SoW.

Same goes for the bombers. He 111, Do 17, Ju 88, Ju 87, Blenheim, Wellington, all more important than any of the French bombers and more USEFUL fo rfuture add-ons.

French planes did see some service afterwards but minor compared to above. None of the 5 planes mentioned by you would be a major player in any other add-on (apart from MS 406 in Finland).

Planes for BoB are much smarter to start with because next add-on will have many major players ready already.
If you start with French planes and go to second add-on it is almost as starting from scratch...because you will need LOT of new planes as French will afterwards play only MINOR role.

I mentioned that some planes can be used in some other theaters albeit mostly only in MINOR roles (except for MS 406).
So resources for first scenario of SoW series are much better used in planes that will be MAJOR players in many, many possible add-ons.

I love the French planes, in particular the bombers, the less 'ueber' the better for me, but spending a lot of time and resources to build planes which have only minor use in the future would be plain stupid seen from a business view point IMHO.

Just think going from BoB to the med, how many new planes needed for Allieds?
Going from France to med, how many new planes needed for Allieds?

To me calling BoB a mistake is...well...a mistake...
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