AI is on top of my list

[nearmiss]

And for some there is this...

Originally Posted by klem

Definitely not top of my list.
Before we worry about the AI we need to be able to fly properly ourselves and we can't with the current FMs.

Doesn't matter how far you go with anything, you will always come up short... for someone.

Actually Klem, the AI is an extended labor that could take years. The FM could be fixed within a few days or weeks a most.

What you finally get for FM, may not satisfy you either. Afterall, there are still complainers about IL2 flight models, whose complaints have echoed on forums like this one for years.

[klem]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

And for some there is this...



Doesn't matter how far you go with anything, you will always come up short... for someone.

Actually Klem, the AI is an extended labor that could take years. The FM could be fixed within a few days or weeks a most.

What you finally get for FM, may not satisfy you either. Afterall, there are still complainers about IL2 flight models, whose complaints have echoed on forums like this one for years.

I'll take Rotol Prop Spits that perform close to their RL performance versus 109s that do the same.

If it gets so close that it comes down to hair-splitting I'll live with it.

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by klem

I'll take Rotol Prop Spits that perform close to their RL performance versus 109s that do the same.

If it gets so close that it comes down to hair-splitting I'll live with it.

Maybe you will get what you want, hopefully not at the expense of an improved AI performance.

[klem]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

Maybe you will get what you want, hopefully not at the expense of an improved AI performance.

Well I understand its a 50/50 call.

I fly exclusively on-line so I'm more interested in human players and our FMs.

For the off-line players the AI is a big issue.

[buddye]

Actually, good FM is a must for the AI, if the AI is subject to the same laws of physics as the player (which is a "must" in MHO).

It would be almost pointless to have well designed, tested and refined AI maneuvers/performance and have poor FM controlling the AI trying to fly the maneuvers.

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by buddye

Actually, good FM is a must for the AI, if the AI is subject to the same laws of physics as the player (which is a "must" in MHO).

It would be almost pointless to have well designed, tested and refined AI maneuvers/performance and have poor FM controlling the AI trying to fly the maneuvers.

Thats what i thought. don't they go hand in hand? You cant tell AI to behave a certain way in a FM that's incorrect or doesn't have the correct parameters?

[nearmiss]

The interesting ingredient missing in discussions of FM. So many people have their own ideas of what is a competent FM. Oleg had his idea and he was rebuffed many times by the community. Responding to a community of people, many of whom are pilots can have it's problems.

I mentioned the 1% flight models created by third parties for the MSFT CFS2. The spreadsheets that were created were a very good tool to plug the numbers and stats, then come up with what was called a 1% flight model. The spreadsheets were developed using actual flight model specifications from the aircraft manufacturer, which seemed adequate. Yet, the missing ingredient to all performance specs... Air combat required a new set of rules. Test pilots didn't take the aircraft to untried and unproven thresholds for failure. These failure points were determined by experience, not by test pilots pushing out to reasonable expectations of failure. So... there is that.

Those spreadsheets are still floating around, and probably attainable in many places.

I won't think to argue about their validity. I'll just say they put everyone on the same playing field.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

Afterall, there are still complainers about IL2 flight models, whose complaints have echoed on forums like this one for years.

Some for good reason.. most are not.. my sig says it all

[planespotter]

I have been reading and tonight just reloaded BOB WoVII to my PC and updated to latest patch. I already have Cliffs of Dover but not beta patch, just latest Steam patched version. I don't think that makes a difference to AI?

I played a 4 vs 4 dogfight with both sims in quick mission builder/instant action, where I was in Spitfires vs 109s. Here is my notes I wrote while pausing and playing, just the AI I was considering:

Cliffs of Dover: Merge is good, both sides trying to swing around ea. other / no one opened fire during merge? / wtf 2 109s go away from fight / one 109 shot down by RAF AI / I have not been targeted yet after two minutes / help shoot second 109 down / look at map, 2 other 109s running away, so chase / catch up and fire, they do not react, shoot one down, no reaction from last 109 / boring so leave him to fly away. no one shot at me in whole dogfight.

Battle of Britain II Wings of Victory: Merge, 109s open fire with MGs at long range, one Spitfire damaged / I have two 109s on my tail / call for help on radio / Spitfire comes to help, 109s break off my tail / I get onto tail of 109 but he dives away / he extends and turns back at me! / I get hit with cannon / I spin and recover at sea level / I climb back up to fight (rudder damage I think) / I fire at passing 109 and he breaks off / I follow and fire and he makes evading turn / I cannot maneouvre good and break off, so does he.

This was only one fight but it is as I remember. You cannot compare these two games for single player AI. BOBII rocks, CoD sux. Very sad for such a beautiful sim.

[nearmiss]

It's good you did a recall of a personal combat event. No one really connects with competent AI performance until they really experience it.

Keep it up and you'll get very absorbed in the air combat experience. Actually, it is a very excellent training tool as well for Online air combat

You will be a pro at it, if you stay with it. When you go online you'll not get your head handed to you near as often.

I haven't run the BOB II for awhile myself. I, like many others was waiting for a multi-player. It's not that offline play is that bad, it just gets old flying aircombat hour after hour with no human interaction. Guess it's OK for reclusive personalities, but I'm not one of those types. LOL

Anyway, my interest has been tweaked so I may reload and run it as well. Last time I fired that puppy up I was using XP and Vista. Now I'm on Win 7 64bit. Guess there may be some startup issues, but like always I'll know to stay with it until I get it. LOL