Suddenly Spit IIa on all the servers?

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by Osprey

I don't give a hoot what any historian thinks. I care what pilots who fought have said from their accounts. I have lost count of the number of well known pilots who specifically state how they would make a steep climbing turn and watch the 109 stall out. Gunther Rall even said it himself, that you simply couldn't follow them if they made that move. But tbh you've discounted yourself in this discussion already by telling us that the Hurricane Rotol and 109 have good flight models.

Hi. The memories from an technical history viewpoint unfortunately inaccurate sources. Subjective, and unknown circumstances of the situations. I read on more test results, that 5% the measurement margin of error. It is very much. Imagine how large an the margin of error, if they give an opinion based on feelings only? A couple of counterexamples that what you wrote:

"Me 109 E:
"When put into a full throttle climb at low air speeds, the airplane climbed at a very steep angle, and our fighters used to have difficulty in keeping their sights on the enemy even when at such a height that their rates of climb were comparible. This steep climb at low air speed was one of the standard evasion maneuvres used by the German pilots."
- RAF Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) Farnborough handling trials,Bf.109E Wn: 1304. M.B. Morgan and R. Smelt of the RAE, 1944.
edit: The rear airplane is in a disadvantage always. It would be necessary to pull the airplane above a critical AoA to be able to shoot. If he try, he will stall. This is an old, well-known manoeuvre anyway. Works with identical machines in 1v1 combat too. In fact, does not mean it altogether that the first plane is better

Me 109 E:
"In personally facing the RAF in the air over the Dunkirk encirclement, I found that the Bf 109 E was faster, possessed a higher rate of climb, but was somewhat less manouverable than the RAF fighters."
- Herbert Kaiser, German fighter ace. 68 victories. Source:The Great Book of WW2 Airplanes, page 470.

Me 109 E-4:
"I took a performance climb at 1,15 ATA and 2300 RPM (30 minute limit). A climb speed of 250 kph gave an average rate of climb of 2145 ft/min. Bearing in mind the maximum boost limit of 1,35 ATA the "all out" climb must be impressive."
- Charlie Brown, RAF Flying Instructor, test flight of restored Me 109 E-4 WN 3579. Source: Warbirds Journal issue 50.

source: "Climbing in combat" part of the "Messerschmitt 109 - myths, facts and the view from the cockpit" webpage