IL2 and Sound Modding

[strewth]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Well first of all, as ex-military I know one of the last things done before take-off was to wipe the canopy clean one last time.

Remind me to NEVER fly with you........

DerAlte

Edit: And who says the "World according to Oleg" is right? That I always wondered.

I really thought that I would stay out of this, because "There are none so blind as he who doesn't want to see".

Firstly DerAlte, I am guessing that you are a pilot of the jet age. Big difference between having a jet engine behind you and having a poorly serviced oily piston engine right in front of your windscreen with a bloody great fan blowing all that crap straight back at you.

The point I actually have though is that although the mods were initially done with the best of intentions, there will always be people wanting to abuse the situation. That is why if the corner store owner leaves his key in the door for the honest employee to start next morning; Most people walking past would ignore it or try to act responsibly by removing the key and returning it to the owner believing that it may have been an accident. The sad truth is that there are those in our community that would take advantage of the unlocked door for their own benifit. This does not insinuate that all the others are bad or have bad intentions, but hey, if the hat fits, wear it. You know if you are doing the right thing or not and regardless of how much better it makes your honest life to have that key in the door. You know that one day/night, some low life will rob the store and start to ruin things for everyone, including yourself. Sad but true.

I would dearly love the sound mod as I think that it was always a weak spot in a fantastic sim and I accept that it was done with the best of intentions. But I also know that it WILL get abused by some miserable idiot, so I choose not to open Pandora's box myself.

For those that put foward the argument that it is just scare tactics and paranoia to state that some idiot WILL if not already having done so (the second being my personal belief),abuse the mod/hack/whatever you want to call it. I say to you - That I see your paranoia and raise you a substancial dose of ignorance for the belief that someone out there will not take advantage of the situation for their own personal gain.

Some say that ignorance is bliss though. Time I retired for the evening.

Oh! and one final thing. I don't believe that anyone said that the world according to Oleg was right. However! he probably has a better idea on things than most other people here. Oleg is not just some nerd that made a game one day. Try a bit of research.

[DerAlte]

I have researched alot of WW2 aviation. This game is the best (at the moment) for WW2 aircraft. It just has way too many "missing" items to make it a sim, so it stays as a game. Oleg is right about alot of things, but very, very wrong about others. We can start at loadouts and go from there. It seems to me that most people in todays age take what they see on TV, games, and in the internet as face value (Wikipedia anyone?).
As UF_Josse said, a little reading here or there will open your eyes.

BTW, I have flown in WW2 fighters and bombers, a Bud of mine was a member of the CAF untill the PC crowd whined so they changed the name. I have a fews hours in a T-6 Texan (front seat).

But I see know that no matter what is said, or how it is said, if you do not follow what the "Great Leader" says.......you bees wrong. Another forum that has turned into a Zoo.

BTW, I think that most of the computer programmers "think" they are right when they make their games too.

How many hours do you have flying?? Have you flown in a REAL WW2 aircraft? Thought not.

DerAlte

[X]

I am leitmotiv of Ubi forum. I was advised by a good friend the 6 DOF mod was perfected, and that I should try it. I had taken 46 off my HD because it bored me to tears. After all the sound and fury over the mods, I was doubly sick of it. I tried the sound mod before I zapped 46, and I enjoyed the Bf 110C, and that was about it. I was not able to get the first version of the 6 DOF mod to work, so that was that. Yesterday I reinstalled 46, reinstalled the sound mod, and installed the 6 DOF mod---this time it worked perfectly.

Let me say this to those who are dead set against the mods. You would have to be literally insane to not use the 6 DOF mod. 6 DOF is not a luxury for a combat flight sim, it is not a gimmick, it is not fun---it is absolutely essential. The standard sight emulation system in IL-2 is archaic and completely artificial. With 6 DOF, IL-2 is nearly state-of-the-art. Without 6 DOF your situational awareness is massively reduced. Without 6 DOF your relationship to your gunsight is artificial. Without it all the beautiful modeling of the effects of telescopic sights is wasted. With 6 DOF, you literally bend over and zoom right into the telescopic view through the tube. You can't imagine it until you have done it. If you do not have the latest TrackIR, and if you have never used a 6 DOF flight sim like FSX, BOBII, or MAW, you will have no idea what you are missing. Your visual activity in the sim is completely natural. My favorite IL-2 airplane has always been the I-16. I always rankled at the completely unrealistic blocked view aft. I hated having to fishtail constantly to check six. I was always handling it in a completely gamed, artificial manner. With 6 DOF it is another airplane. All of the airplanes are completely new. Your relationship to each one is now different. You are not operating it using a mechanical, unrealistic sighting procedure. Fly the He 111 or Ju 88. Your experience is completely different. By the way, I think 6 DOF works better in IL-2 than it does in FSX, BOBII, or MAW---go figure that. Now IL-2 is my favorite flight sim again.

Recall we were "authoritatively" told 6 DOF was impossible for IL-2.

I have a theory. I suspect Oleg saw that the online community wanted IL-2 frozen. He is working on BOBSOW which intends to answer the needs of both offliners and onliners. I suspect he wants to see just how inventive the IL-2 people could be---after all, he intends to let outsiders use their models in BOB offline. So he let the frustration with the sedentary design build until the boiling point, and voila!---the mods. Now we see an unprecedented explosion of creativity and ingenuity. The reactionaries are screaming their heads off. Before the mods IL-2 was heading for oblivion. Now it will live for years even after BOB. Before 6 DOF IL-2 was a clumsy toy. With 6 DOF it is a combat flight sim. Live with it.

[Billfish]

So, DerAlte has more experience then Oleg Maddox and his team pertaining to WWII aircraft, aircombat, aviation and all associated issues huh?....Naturally forgetting that his research team has also been the entire community as Oleg has always been more then happy to consider properly documented findings (not just gut) and implement them if "reasonably" possible considering time and the sim itself naturally also having to balance play.

On the other hand I've taken numerous rides in more types of automobiles then most here, yet that oddly has not made me an expert in automotive engineering/history/statistics and so on......Go figure *shrugs*

Originally Posted by X

....Thus, the mods are doing some great things, but I place this at the top. You recall, we were "authoritatively" told 6 DOF was impossible in IL-2....

No, you were told it could not be done correctly and to the quality standards Maddox Games had set which it cannot....In kind wherein using a mouse, keyboard views, hat, or TIR, the possible views a player can have are exactly the same....With 6DOF that balance between players equipment is lost. So those using that mod having a distinct and unfair advantage over non users in online play.

K2

[X]

IL-2 was designed to be the most realistic combat flight sim possible, not to be a balanced toy for onliners.

[Billfish]

Originally Posted by X

The purpose of IL-2 was to design the most realistic possible combat flight sim, not to design a balanced toy for the onliners.

To a point.....and how realistic are your 6dof views in all planes considering the cockpit graphics? As much as we ALL want it realistic, there is a point where lines must be drawn considering the limitations of it being "virtual" and often based upon the hardware and software available. As to the above issue it was made quite clear that to make 6dof "realistic" would entail reworking every cockpit in the sim, that's old news. In kind, being that the sim was "designed" with not just single players in mind yet MMP, that requires that balance be maintained in certain regards.

Not aircraft, weapons, and so on.....Yet aspects of "play" as I can assure you if I was able to have a 20% greater field of view then you in a head to head competition in the same aircraft you would state quite clearly...."Unfair, that's cheating".

K2

(See I can cut and paste too )

[LT.INSTG8R]

I agree with you here Billfish. I have TrackIR and wouldnt fly without it but for the reasons you stated I wont use the 6dof. Tho leitmotiv does make a compelling argument to try it, it does sound nice. But I dont want to see all the holes in the cockpits thats would just ruin the immersion factor right there. I love the sound mod and will continue to use it as it greatly improves immersion factor and thats what important to me.

[X]

Alas, there are no holes. Who has been spreading that rumor? I have yet to see a hole. If I see one, I'll report it. I would not use the mod if it was crude. I am a horrible snob, and I hate crude work. I have used the He 111, Do 335, I-16, I-153, Ki-27, A6M3, Ju 88, Bf 109G-6A/S, Fw 190A-5, Bf 110, P-38J, that I can recall, and the only flub was a floating small cowling bump on the 109 in certain very narrow angles---big deal.

P.S. And, we all know the official reason for not providing 6 DOF was always that the cockpits were not designed for 6 DOF. There were never any statements about preserving online balance---this is pure invention, BF. Anyway, because of the vast disparities in simming gear and experience there will never be a level playing field.

[Fighterduck]

use or not to sue...sure, hacking the IL2 code wanst a good idea. But personally i use the sound mod. Why? well...i waited so long for new sounds, epsecially for .50 cal and some engines...i hed to try it. And when installed...WOW...i must admit they did an incredible job. Im not here to promote this or that thing; many times the comunity asked for better sounds, more realistic sounds and never had them. Im not telling that Oleg or his team is wrong: they had their motivation for not implementing new sounds. But as i said i watied for this too long to dont try them. And now IL2 for me is simply reborn. Incredibly more immersive than before. ..But ok...on the other side there is the cheating problem in the online comunity. So, from a presonal point of view, in terms of "gameplay pleasure" i must admit that this mod is great: it add that thing a waited for so long.
Yes cheating in online session can "destroy" a game: but sometimes im little bit suprised how this sound mod could destabilize an entire comunity: ok its not a good thing hacking the game. But it was a question of time. And now its a while that the mod is there....so...why can we just past over now?...yes yes i can immagine your answere...but im a little bit bored to se people "insult" each other because one "support" and the other not...at this point only Oleg can fix the problem in future patch...and if he will not...try to live with and look farther.

[Feathered_IV]

Originally Posted by X

Alas, there are no holes. Who has been spreading that rumor? I have yet to see a hole. If I see one, I'll report it. I would not use the mod if it was crude. I am a horrible snob, and I hate crude work. I have used the He 111, Do 335, I-16, I-153, Ki-27, A6M3, Ju 88, Bf 109G-6A/S, Fw 190A-5, Bf 110, P-38J, that I can recall, and the only flub was a floating small cowling bump on the 109 in certain very narrow angles---big deal.

P.S. And, we all know the official reason for not providing 6 DOF was always that the cockpits were not designed for 6 DOF. There were never any statements about preserving online balance---this is pure invention, BF. Anyway, because of the vast disparities in simming gear and experience there will never be a level playing field.

My first post here...

It's crazy, but if this 6DoF was a feature of the recent beta patch, everyone would be singing to the heavens about how wonderful it is. How fair and just and timely an addition.

Flight simmers are such a weird bunch. Always screaming for more, but always frightened of something new and terrified of change. The salvation of the whole Il-2 series is here, and they won't touch it because it doesn't have a designer label.

The new viewing system works. It's FoV has been refined to stop any of the inconsistencies that were apparent in earlier versions. It works. Isn't that what you are supposed to want from a flight simulator? A better experience. Not, as Leitmotiv says - a balanced toy for onliners.

For myself, I've given up on the whole online thing. It's grindingly repetitive and has nothing to recommend it anymore. Now I have a choice of online play and the tedious late-war planesets and shallow objectives. Or a purely offline experience. With every aircraft there to be rediscovered all over again. And more third party maps and enhancements than I have seen in years.

It's a pretty easy choice to make.