Very short development update

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Great, if you expect other people to know what you mean, then you wont't have any problems to understand how other people mean it as well.

"Out of place" jokes, btw, are a very subjective matter. For me this update was great fun and carried more of a message in it then others obviously were able to recognize. And it certainly has much more character in it then a clinical update with points to be fixed and release dates included.

I suppose how you take it is a matter of character. Being the "glass is half full or half empty" kind of person. Do not expect to be able to push the "glass is half empty" attitude onto others just so.

the point is that what Luthier has posted here was no update, but yet another stunt to stir the arguments and gain time.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, because I believe that everyone is free to express their opinion, but I'm not standing for people being disrespectful of my opinion, showing an arrogance that is in line with the devs at the moment.

..still didn't get what you were talking about re. needing a girlfriend and getting a life though..

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

the point is that what Luthier has posted here was no update, but yet another stunt to stir the arguments and gain time.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, because I believe that everyone is free to express their opinion, but I'm not standing for people being disrespectful of my opinion, showing an arrogance that is in line with the devs at the moment.

..still didn't get what you were talking about re. needing a girlfriend and getting a life though..

I simply go by Einstein "Stupidity is doing the same thing again and again and still expecting a different result". If you consider that arrogance, so be it.

And if you want to have a more elaborate explaination in regards to getting a life, then consider spending valuable life time on spamming a forum for nothing but a development update and your subjective understanding of what such an update should include.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

I simply go by Einstein "Stupidity is doing the same thing again and again and still expecting a different result". If you consider that arrogance, so be it.

And if you want to have a more elaborate explaination in regards to getting a life, then consider spending valuable life time on spamming a forum for nothing but a development update and your subjective understanding of what such an update should include.

I am just defending what I believe in and answering people who have questions and opinions different than mine, in a polite and respectful manner, without offending them, unlike you.

How's that for arrogance?

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

I am just defending what I believe in and answering people who have questions and opinions different than mine, in a polite and respectful manner, without offending them, unlike you.

How's that for arrogance, Sherlock?

My apologies if you felt offended. I just took the same route as you did with "over the top" comparisons. I thought you knew what I ment. Sorry if you took it too seriously.

But consider this. You blamed the devs of buying time to fix this game. Going this route, you should be perfectly happy they released the game in the first place loooong before it was ready for that.

Or let's put it in a different way. How, do you think are regular development updatesgoing to fix this game any faster?

I will repeat that I personally would prefer regular updates myself. I, too, think that spending ten minutes to write down a forum post is not too much an effort and would please lots of folks that simply want to have a bit more clarity after waiting years for the IL2 follow up. However, I won't lose a night's sleep if this is not going to happen and one day we get a huge update bringing this game to a playable state at once (and even that is relative, as I have already logged 150 hours with CoD).

Let's bring it down to the core of the question. Do you think Maddox Games is working on fixing the game, or aren't they?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

My apologies if you felt offended. I just took the same route as you did with "over the top" comparisons. I thought you knew what I ment. Sorry if you took it too seriously.

It's ok.

But consider this. You blamed the devs of buying time to fix this game. Going this route, you should be perfectly happy they released the game in the first place loooong before it was ready for that.

Of course I am happy, but this is not the point. They were late on their delivery with Ubisoft, remember what Oleg said? The cause for this can be anything: poor managing, little resources, stuff that needed to be redone from scracth.. I dunno, not my problem, and again, I'm happy they delivered the game as it is, but for the love of honesty and respect, tell the community that the money they're spending is a long term investment on a yet to be completed alpha. Il-2 was nowhere near this bad when it originally came out, and the bad reviews they received with CoD have done them no good.

Or let's put it in a different way. How, do you think are regular development updatesgoing to fix this game any faster?

It won't, but that's not my interest. Regular updates are useful to the community to know on which feedback aspects they can help and to show the newcomers that the game is far from dead, there's a lot of work going on and a very professional one. When you want to go pro, you need to behave like a pro.

I will repeat that I personally would prefer regular updates myself. I, too, think that spending ten minutes to write down a forum post is not too much an effort and would please lots of folks that simply want to have a bit more clarity after waiting years for the IL2 follow up. However, I won't lose a night's sleep if this is not going to happen and one day we get a huge update bringing this game to a playable state at once (and even that is relative, as I have already logged 150 hours with CoD).

Let's bring it down to the core of the question. Do you think Maddox Games is working on fixing the game, or aren't they?

Oh no, of course they are, but they're leaving it all to an oblivious state of "it's fixed when it's fixed" which, again for the laws of Public Relations, marketing and common sense, it's not a good idea, especially when you sell for good an unfinished product.

Do you understand my point better now?

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Of course I am happy, but this is not the point. They were late on their delivery with Ubisoft, remember what Oleg said? The cause for this can be anything: poor managing, little resources, stuff that needed to be redone from scracth.. I dunno, not my problem, and again, I'm happy they delivered the game as it is, but for the love of honesty and respect, tell the community that the money they're spending is a long term investment on a yet to be completed alpha. Il-2 was nowhere near this bad when it originally came out, and the bad reviews they received with CoD have done them no good.

My same opinion.
I don't care about the money I've spent: I would pay again to support guys who are developing a product for a small market like flight sims are.
But if I'm investing in you then I would like to see what are you doing and I want to know the real state of the application.

At start I blamed the anti epilessy filter because it was ruining the game... was that the real problem of CloD?

If it was a beta version I might be more patient: fixing issues is easy since the game's base is solid... instead it's an alpha and makes me think of this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoGWuK5e_nY

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

It's ok.


Of course I am happy, but this is not the point. They were late on their delivery with Ubisoft, remember what Oleg said? The cause for this can be anything: poor managing, little resources, stuff that needed to be redone from scracth.. I dunno, not my problem, and again, I'm happy they delivered the game as it is, but for the love of honesty and respect, tell the community that the money they're spending is a long term investment on a yet to be completed alpha. Il-2 was nowhere near this bad when it originally came out, and the bad reviews they received with CoD have done them no good.


It won't, but that's not my interest. Regular updates are useful to the community to know on which feedback aspects they can help and to show the newcomers that the game is far from dead, there's a lot of work going on and a very professional one. When you want to go pro, you need to behave like a pro.



Oh no, of course they are, but they're leaving it all to an oblivious state of "it's fixed when it's fixed" which, again for the laws of Public Relations, marketing and common sense, it's not a good idea, especially when you sell for good an unfinished product.

Do you understand my point better now?

I never saw Maddox Games as "Pros". More like nerds like us that want to make this Sim happen with lots of personal sacrifices involved. They clearly are not in the game development for purely moneys sake, else they would have gone the Silent Hunter V route a long time ago, or the RoF route, charging for individual airplanes.

I understand your point very well, but it applies more to a big publisher like Ubisoft or EA, not a small russian Sim development team that does not get paid for any extras, especially not for diretly communicating with an abusive fanbase that tends to rip of arms when presented a little finger and is full of an entitelment attitude that was unheared of just 20 years ago. In the past, development updates just caused people to flame even more because their specific problem was not adressed. In all seriousness, Maddox Games is still consiting of human beings, in doubt seriously overworked and tired human beings. Them not being able or willing to respond in a careful manner with all the sh+tstorms on this forum is not really so wonderous.

[furbs]

Anyone getting deja vu?

[bongodriver]

Man.....take a look at us, intelligent human beings, who by rights should have so much in common, and we end up here on most threads now, if we are honest with ourselves wouldn't we admit that despite the adversarial attitudes flying around here on occasion some of us exchange some quite pleasant replies......and it just feels so much better to stop arguing?

nobody is going to change anybodys mind here...thats clear, we really need to find a way to accomodate both sides.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

I never saw Maddox Games as "Pros". More like nerds like us that want to make this Sim happen with lots of personal sacrifices involved. They clearly are not in the game development for purely moneys sake, else they would have gone the Silent Hunter V route a long time ago, or the RoF route, charging for individual airplanes.

That's quite a romantic view, but far from the truth. Maybe it was in the very beginning, and god knows how long it took them to develop the first IL-2 engine, but over all those years they could have invested their results better. Sometime the arrogance and egotism of one is cause of a lot of trouble, knowing when to step down in favour of a professional who can manage things in a better direction is a hard step to take, but sometimes a necessary one. And I'm saying this with no bitter feelings, it's just an objective observation on the conduct of a company (because Maddox Games is a company).

I understand your point very well, but it applies more to a big publisher like Ubisoft or EA, not a small russian Sim development team that does not get paid for any extras, especially not for diretly communicating with an abusive fanbase that tends to rip of arms when presented a little finger and is full of an entitelment attitude that was unheared of just 20 years ago. In the past, development updates just caused people to flame even more because their specific problem was not adressed. In all seriousness, Maddox Games is still consiting of human beings, in doubt seriously overworked and tired human beings. Them not being able or willing to respond in a careful manner with all the sh+tstorms on this forum is not really so wonderous.

we bypassed the publisher BS here, we went straight to the source. What do you know about what/how/when they get paid, and why would it matter? Remember that what's a hobby to us is a job to them, they aren't doing it in their spare time.

Every software house is made of human beings, some are managed more efficiently than others. There is a lot of cloud networking being done today (look at the excellent Daidalos Team), so it's not even a matter of having to be in the office or speak the same language.