Very short development update

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by Madfish

I try to see luthiers post positive as well.

There is one thing some people seem to forget though: relations. Relationship management with customers and fans is so important and so extremely easy to do.

You don't need to go to the end of the world. Just take 10 minutes a day and prepare something. A small post or save these 10 minutes and give a more detailed post once a week etc.

How long does it take you to upload a screenshot? To say: "hey we're working on this and that - the problem was crazy but we're finally making progress folks! cheer for us "

Answer: it's not even taking you 5 minutes. If you think highly of your product and your loyal fans then this is not something crazy to do!


The problem I see with many russian developers is: You guys s**k (are bad) at communicating and marketing. You're friendly folks so please don't hide that from us. It's sets a very negative mood and that is not what the game or your work deserves.

Nothing is perfect - be open to admit flaws and try to push the limits forward.

At least that is my opinion

Originally Posted by David Hayward

The reason they're not doing it is because they probably assume their customers are not children who need to be told every 10 minutes that we're not there yet. Crazy, I know.

Oh how very kind of you to call me a child just because I ask for and advise a professional company with more than a dozen employees, engaged in making a game for an global audience, to actually do some customer relationship management.
What you just stated only leaves the explanation of a lack of real life experience. Because in my real life information management is a key quality of personal and business scenarios.

Let me tell you one thing. In the world of (especially working) adults communication is just a very, very important thing these days. And contrary to your, not well thought through, statement it is not that important with kids. It gets more and more important the higher you climb the "ladder". The more responsability you have.

Further, if you would really read my post (sadly you didn't, at least it appears that way) you'd understand that I didn't ask them for a status update every 5 minutes.

All I'm asking for is a little respect and professionalism.

Where I'm coming from there is a saying: Kunde ist König (customer is king) and I need to abide by it, and I do so willingly, to keep my clients happy and guess what: they are happy when I tell them specific dates, when I inform them of problems, when I tell them when these problems will be solved and that I'm working on it, when I give them status updates etc. - especially if they paid for the product already! Something that is now different from before, when CloD wasn't released yet.
In other words: it's professional and ethically correct to inform the community and your customers. Also it's very, very positive for your companies image. Who will really trust a company programming a game if they can't even use a simple internet forum or upload images? Right: no one. Because they appear lazy and, excuse me, stupid, if they can't even interact with a simple tool like a forum. Also there shouldn't be a language barrier either - you can't write code in russian so they must have guys who are able to speak english. And even if they posted in russian - I bet the community would find people willing to translate. But right now they ignore their clients and fans - a fatal mistake.

Also you don't sell an unfinished product and then save 5 or 10 minutes each day in a full development team of a dozen guys or way more. Their team has enough productive hours each day - if one of them would take only 10 minutes to inform the community it wouldn't affect their development at all.


So before you start calling people childish you might take that advice yourself and actually stop being one in the first place.

[synti]

Originally Posted by Madfish

Oh how very kind of you to call me a child just because I ask for and advise a professional company with more than a dozen employees, engaged in making a game for an global audience, to actually do some customer relationship management.
What you just stated only leaves the explanation of a lack of real life experience. Because in my real life information management is a key quality of personal and business scenarios.

Let me tell you one thing. In the world of (especially working) adults communication is just a very, very important thing these days. And contrary to your, not well thought through, statement it is not that important with kids. It gets more and more important the higher you climb the "ladder". The more responsability you have.

Further, if you would really read my post (sadly you didn't, at least it appears that way) you'd understand that I didn't ask them for a status update every 5 minutes.

All I'm asking for is a little respect and professionalism.

Where I'm coming from there is a saying: Kunde ist König (customer is king) and I need to abide by it, and I do so willingly, to keep my clients happy and guess what: they are happy when I tell them specific dates, when I inform them of problems, when I tell them when these problems will be solved and that I'm working on it, when I give them status updates etc. - especially if they paid for the product already! Something that is now different from before, when CloD wasn't released yet.
In other words: it's professional and ethically correct to inform the community and your customers. Also it's very, very positive for your companies image. Who will really trust a company programming a game if they can't even use a simple internet forum or upload images? Right: no one. Because they appear lazy and, excuse me, stupid, if they can't even interact with a simple tool like a forum.

Also you don't sell an unfinished product and then save 5 or 10 minutes each day in a full development team of a dozen guys or way more. Their team has enough productive hours each day - if one of them would take only 10 minutes to inform the community it wouldn't affect their development at all.


So before you start calling people childish you might take that advice yourself and actually stop being one in the first place.

+1

This post should be studied carefully by many. Sim and computer game production is submitted to the same laws of business as is production of any others goods. Thank you for this mature and realistic posting mr. Madfish.

[Sternjaeger II]

Madfish, don't bother with what David writes, it's obvious that he's either Luthier's biographer or Luthier himself in disguise

Completely agree with your post, now that should be made a sticky one, not some "dev updates"

[bongodriver]

I paid money for a game.....not Luthiers life story, couldn't give a toss if Luthier posts an update or a little joke, I have never seen any game developer obligated to 'say' anything, development updates are a priviledge not a right, the argument the game is 'broken' is debateable, there are many who play it well enough with some 'bugs'.....since when was a 'buggy' game a broken one, if that was the case then every piece of software needs to be condemned.

[furbs]

When you have to turn off landscape features to get sound i would say its broken bongodriver.

When there is no cooperative play as advertised on the box - broken
When you cant apply FSAA - Broken
No DX11 as advertised - Broken
Dynamic weather- Broken
etc etc....

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

When there is no cooperative play as advertised on the box - broken
When you cant apply FSAA - Broken
No DX11 as advertised - Broken
Dynamic weather- Broken
etc etc....

I have played co-ops......not broken
I have seen anti-aliasing, maybe it's not perfect but.......not broken
No DX11....not many games on the market have gone DX11 yet........not broken
No dynamic weather....'yet'.......not broken (because how can something be broken if it doesn't exist)

BOOOOM!

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by furbs

When you have to turn off landscape features to get sound i would say its broken bongodriver.

Then I would say it's a little overdramatic, sounds like a 'bug' to me, and it was made clear that the sound engine was being re-built ground up....or does nobody remember that update? that will take time and will be done when its done, no need for updates on how many toilet breaks Luthier is making.

[furbs]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Then I would say it's a little overdramatic, sounds like a 'bug' to me, and it was made clear that the sound engine was being re-built ground up....or does nobody remember that update? that will take time and will be done when its done, no need for updates on how many toilet breaks Luthier is making.

No bongo, a sim without sound is broken.

getting rid of the trees is a work around.

its broken until its fixed, not before. it doesn't matter if a update is coming that will fix it and make it fantastic, its still broken until we get the fix.

[klem]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

I paid money for a game.....not Luthiers life story, couldn't give a toss if Luthier posts an update or a little joke, I have never seen any game developer obligated to 'say' anything, development updates are a priviledge not a right, the argument the game is 'broken' is debateable, there are many who play it well enough with some 'bugs'.....since when was a 'buggy' game a broken one, if that was the case then every piece of software needs to be condemned.

bongodriver you are missing the point.

We are not waiting for one of Oleg's free update patches for IL-2. We are not waiting for some freebee privilege enhancement to something that is already working.

We are waiting for our new broken product to be repaired. It does not do "what it says on the tin".

Any company selling a defective product does have an obligation to keep its customers properly informed.

And by the way, content that is included like dynamic weather is part of the product and should be working, not that Dynamic Weather is particularly important over other things.