Help For Luthier

[Tiger27]

Originally Posted by BigPickle

Agree'd Zorin, but it think thats a leadership issue when no clear direction is displayed.
They wont ask for help with sound and rightly so because they get paid for their work and i fear they could come off looking lame asking unpaid guys to do their work for them.
They already use the community for beta testing problem is no-one looks at the results properly and then decides if the extra ship should be put in or should they fix the spastic AI that fly with in-human characteristics.

Why is it so hard to understand that the person who did the ship, would have nothing to do with the person fixing AI, if they have an employee that is there to model objects then it would make no sense not to get him making things, irrespective of whether other bugs exist as he isn't the person trained to fix those bugs, for me I hope we get new objects with every patch, including more ships.

[timholt]

Originally posted by Bgpickle Quote "They are a professional development team and dont need our help." End quote

Wrong on both counts methinks.

[JG52Krupi]

Yes because cod looks terrible... Lol the only thing that they can be blamed for is biting off too much and realising the game in a bad state. Yes two bad things but you can't say that the team has no talent in a few months we will all be in awe of the engine.

I think some are possibly thinking about what you want from this sim instead of what 1C might do to repair this game.

The reason why people make mods is to offer a different choice over the stock, and the stock sound code is broken, both Jafa and I mithered about wether to let our beta's out because of this issue and what you have from us is probably half of what we could do given time, but that right there is the point. If you think what we have done is good your wrong, it just shows how bad the state of the code is right now for sound. 1C have recognized this and a process of fixing is in progress. Leave them to it because it will be a difficult job to fix it.

Tiger, The guy making the ship isnt just doing it of his own accord mate, he is told to, and leadership thinks we need a ship instead of having re-worked AI, clearly having a functioning game ie AI needs to work correctly to have exciting gameplay.

On the sound issue let me re-illiterate, the code is damaged that is the problem right now.
They have the re-write the sound engine because it was broken, sticking a sound mod over the top wont fix anything at all because the code that runs that mod is broken.

So this is why they need to spend the time to do this.
I'll say this also, if they do start using peoples mods instead of fixing issues, I dont know how long i'll play the game because we'll still have broken code within the game.

I'm sure they wont do this as they want to create a great game that will last, a game that is theirs and not a patchwork of different work from the different people. Just so we are clear. That is the reason why the game is the way it is because of different peoples code all mixed in, Luthier said they are trying to find and scrub out that code left by people gone from the team, using users mods surely would defeat that object.

So just lump it and leave em alone to fix it their way, stop encouraging development quick fixes and think about longivity.
if you dont like the sound use a mod and play single player for a bit, but if we start telling them to use usermade mods to fill in the holes in their game we will end up with a big mess, if it dont get fixed properly then the user made sound mods out now will be the best you'll get. Personally I'd like to make a proper one on a better written engine.

[JG52Krupi]

Agreed bigpickle apart from bit about the new ship and ai. Just because he works in the gaming industry does not mean he knows about programming he could just be a modeller and can't help out with the software bugs.

Very true but I ment that it seems that no-one is being directed to fix code as a priority if you understand what i mean. Models are great dont get me wrong, but the (probably one and only) coder should be directed onto that AI code like a rat up a drain pipe.
Single play is what is keeping this game afloat right with the MP sound bug being a fair way off being repaired.
So they need to get mega involved in SP issues now to keep peoples interest, its just logic.

[zoopyzook]

They need to go and speak to EA DICE on how dynamic positional sound works.

Actually here is some of their presentations on the subject

http://publications.dice.se/publicat...category=Audio

[Phazon]

Much respect for the effort DICE put into their soundwork. Would like to meet their sound team one day to shake their hands.

Getting on-topic now - To be honest a completely new sound engine should have been in development for Cliffs of Dover from the start of the project, if only to equally match the increased step in visual and simulated fidelity. At the moment we have a half-baked sound engine that is filled with some serious bugs which clearly can't be fixed and the sound engine itself is hardly more advanced than IL-2 1946 in terms of features.

Most sim games take the sound design of their games seriously as it is a big influence on immersion. They have custom-built sound engines designed for the particular simulation in order to try and replicate the overall sound environment as much as is feasibly possible. Watch some videos of Rise of Flight or DCS A-10C to see how realistic their sounds are.

Cliffs of Dover made a big mistake in not putting enough money / time into the sound engine and sound samples. The effect in percieved immersion is significant even if what is on screen is not 100% real. Not having actual sound samples of the iconic Merlin or DB601 at the very least (let alone using the same sound for both!) is a huge mistake. Not even trying to simulate the sound of wind hitting the cockpit and airframe or even differentiating the sound for when the canopy is open or closed can also be seen as lazy especially when such effects could've been used in all aircraft not only in this game but future titles as well

... and of course we have all the lovely bugs to put up with as well.

[Shado]

@ BP and feathered,.
If someone else here has the same file in their _dump folder please take a look at yours using notepad to see if the same lines are there, I havent made any modifications/changes to the file and see no reason that it would have been overwritten by anything and so as far as I'm aware thats the original file, there are a couple of other Jafa references in there.
I havent taken a look at any othe .prs files yet, could be interesting I agree with wht your both saying.

maybe it's just sloppiness and someone left those references in there, maybe just maybe that isnt the original file either way it kind of throws things up in the air a little, I just hope I'm not seeing things

[Feathered_IV]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

..in a few months we will all be in awe of the engine.

Pure speculation. Highly unlikely too when one considers how many years it has taken to get this far.

@ Shado: Is that for real? Maddox games downloaded Jaffa's Il-2 mod and used some in CloD??