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#1
05-15-2011, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
 At the risk of being quickly shot down - cause I'm no copyright lawyer. I understand the legal position in the US to be along these lines: For works published between 1923 and 1963, provided they were published with a copyright notice, the works had copyright protection for a term of 28 years. At the end of the 28 year period an extension of an additional 67 years could be requested, a total of 95 years. If there was no copyright notice on the original work then they immediately became public domain. If no extension was requested then they became public domain after the initial 28 years. Plans of USS Yorktown held by HNSA (Historic Naval Ships Assoc) prepared by Newport News Ship Building Co are not copyright marked, therefore appear to be Public Domain. Either way after 2041 all work produced up to 1946 becomes Public Domain, so not long to wait.  For any of the early BB's originally built in WWI the 95 years has already lapsed. Last edited by Asheshouse; 05-15-2011 at 03:27 PM. 
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#2
05-15-2011, 03:56 PM
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We can discuss days and days on the subject without finding any compromises. One thing that DT can do to improve the game and without conflicts with external "moders", since tools are available and capacity also, is to update graphic engine and proc engine (multicore proc, sli,...).
This will be a big step forward and I am sure all FB community will recognize your leadership in this domain. For the remaining, I am convinced that, all around the world, there are enough moders able to handle Java/C++ programing language, 3D, flight dynamics and knowing enought about IL2 structure to improve, in these domains, this game. At the end, all users will be satisfied and happy to have a game at 2011 standards. Moreover, each parts will work in a domain without interference with the other part.
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#3
05-15-2011, 04:53 PM
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I totally agree with you Hans Burger, that would just be great to have an updated graphics engine and multicore capability, and also the possibility to increase the number of slots available for map makers ...
 Nobody needs a war between the DT and the modding communities, on the contrary ... I can hardly imagine what IL2/46 could be if both "camps" worked in the same direction ...
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#4
05-15-2011, 05:25 PM
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The IL2 sturmovik - Forgotten Battles source code was hacked.
Third party mod programmers have taken liberties with intellectual property and violated all manner of laws in the process. The TD made arrangements with Oleg to license the source code. The improvements in IL2 we enjoy from TD are what resulted. Someone had to "take charge" or the mods "hodge-podge" would eventually make IL2 a mess. We did experience that when mods were first released. There were conflicts and issues constantly between different mods as they were applied to the IL2. Anyone that used mods can describe examples. It wasnt' a nightmare, but it was close to insanity. The purpose for licensing with TD was in part to insure stability in IL2 further development. Mod programmers have the source code, afterall it's hacked. The mod programmers can do as they will with the code in so many words. If Mod programmers go it alone, which they can do since they have the source. They can develop independently from the TD. If they ignore the core, which is updated by TD it will mean there will be a degradation of the core base for IL2 Sturmovik. This will over time make updates and mods a nuisance. There will be all kinds of issues between mods and the IL2. The TD has made improvements in the core of the application and usually does some type of improvement with each update release. If mod developers will continue to use TD updates as a basis for applying their mods the consistency of IL2 can be preserved. I am not apart of the TD, nor am I affiliated with them in any way. Like everyone else that appreciates the IL2-FB I want it to remain a good success. We need the TD, and it was a smart move to preserve the integrity of IL2-FB by licensing a community minded group of programmers. TD is cooperative and open to suggestions, as we all know. A team like TD can ad new members and members can drop out, but the integrity of the IL2 core programming can be maintained. Several attempts to unify mod programmers have been tried, and success was dubious. Yes, there are a few successes, but will they have the staying power? I'm not knocking anyone or group of mod consolidators by any means. IMO, Every mod developer can hold a place, if we just embrace one development group for maintaing IL2 core integrity as it is updated. Last edited by nearmiss; 05-15-2011 at 08:14 PM.
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#5
05-15-2011, 07:03 PM
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So, even if suddenly the copyrights will be stripped from NG, 1C still will be restricted under this contract. This is what I know about it. I may be wrong though, since I never saw this document and have no idea what is in it actually. Nevertheless, there was clear and strict order from Ilya and earlier by Maddox, that DT should not touch any US ships, or NG related planes and cockpits.
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#6
05-15-2011, 07:43 PM
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And the Martin stuff?Why it can't be used ingame?Is it part of them now too?
And IDK why all that fuzz about the modders.If wasn't because of them,IL2 would be still on 4.08 and probably already loosing part of its fans.It gave the old good IL2 a second youth.I know that there are modders that take DT work and label as theirs,the ones that does s... work and maybe even some that used the code in the early days to cheat,but labeling modders as criminals is exaggerating a lot,isn't it?
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#7
05-15-2011, 07:49 PM
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PS I'd rather separate the discussion of DT issues and DT-related work from mods discussion and do all DT-related talks in the respective forum section. I kind of feel uncomfortable by hijacking this thread from poor modders.
Last edited by SaQSoN; 05-15-2011 at 07:56 PM.
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#8
05-15-2011, 08:29 PM
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Most of us started as modders. I was a modders and a noob 3D modeller, still I am, and the guys of the team helped me to grow in my skill, released my model in their patch and finally accepted me in the group. Still we have a 3rd party forum were "modders" can cooperate with us making features for the patch ..... Some of my best friends are modders. Why the hell I should be against them? Aracno TD 3d modeller and, as member of an online squad, happy user of one great modpack (dont ask wich one).
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#9
05-16-2011, 07:22 AM
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http://replay.web.archive.org/200211...il2center.com/ http://replay.web.archive.org/200112...il2center.com/ http://replay.web.archive.org/200211...il2center.com/ Anyone could make a reservation of some plane for himself and model it according to the sim specs. If it was done properly and sent to MG, it appeared later in some free patch or commercial add-on. If it was in add-on, the modeller got paid for his work. My estimation is that probably half of the currently existing plane external & cockpit 3D models were made by the community members. The "first generation of modders". Called 3rd party members back then. The whole initial idea of TD was to gather these 3rd party guys back together and continue the old style quality development and ask some of the most talented modders to join. This means that TD has many guys that were these old 3rd party guys and these guys have created just huge amount of 3D content for this sim. Planes, cockpits, ships, ground objects and even maps. I find it always pretty funny when some modder speaks crap about TD without realizing that is was some guy in TD who actually made his own mod possible. Without the 3rd party guys (including several TD guys) there would be about 50% less raw materials for the "new" mod planes and lot less ships & ground objects, etc. So I think that it is pretty big middle finger aimed towards the old 3rd party guys if the 3rd party efforts are ignored and mods are raised on pedistal because they have made hundreds of "new" planes (from which the most of are variants of the existing planes). It takes 5 minutes to put wrong cockpit to old AI planes. It takes easily 6 months to model a historically correct pit. I would even say that 4.09 & 4.10 was pretty much nothing compared to the full efforts of 3rd party. But at least TD is trying to maintain the same standards set by the best 3rd party work such as Tempest & Gladiator. Which means that TD won't put wrong cockpits to AI planes to make it flyable or release CR.42 as Hs 123, etc. Bottom line: Thanks to the 3rd party efforts long before any modding, IL-2 now has huge amount of raw material that modders can recycle as new planes and use as objects in their maps. And not a single mod has ever given credits to a 3rd party guy who made the mod possible in the first place. These guys are all mentioned in readme files, but the average modder just doesn't care.
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#10
05-16-2011, 08:37 AM
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I much prefer to be passive observer but I have a simple question: why do you, TD members, argue here, in MODS section? Don't you have your own section one forum above this one? Make your statements there and leave this forum for mods discussion. But I guess that some of you just need your voices heard, no matter what. And argue till your fingers bleed. What a shame. Instead of being a true beacon for the IL2 community, you are here just to stir things up, it would seem.
If you are so much better than modders, this does not show that. I know why the TD was ORIGINALLY started and I am 200% sure that it was not for this purpose. Some of you might know, some of you know for sure. Not what your mission statement is NOW, what it was AT THE BEGINNING. Some members on your team surely have the knowledge, but their attitude... in a lot of eyes it just hurts you. And promotion of paid projects... absurd. Perhaps the best way for you guys to go would be paid add-ons. It would make you so desirable money and would also bring you much desired legal advantage. And for the conclusion, I would like to ask something of you, TD. I read in your forum here that the old RRR thing was brought up once more. While some of your members are telling community that it was left out because it was flawed and was missing for that reason and others were arguing that it was arcade(ish) (while refly is so much more realistic...), would you do me one last favor and not include it at all? Since that is your opinion about it. The catch here is, naturally, that you can implement it on your own, sure. But then again, modders can also implement what you do on their own also. A nice loop. Specially since coding is such a wonderful world where one thing can be done on so many different ways. Thank you.
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