Bf109E-3

[ICDP]

Originally Posted by BlackbusheFlyer

I hear the points you are making, but discounting real pilots experience is somewhat dubious. I am not suggesting by any stretch that the Spitfire should be 'autowin' so where did you get that from? The fact is that at the moment the 109 in the game is faster than the Spitfire Mk 1 at all altitudes and both climbs and dives faster which does not appear to be in agreement with the bulk of written evidence.

I quote:



Where was this suggested? Was not by me.

You linked to an article on a web site that compared the Spitfire Mk Ia and Mk IIa to the 109E during the BoB. Linking to an article compiled and edited to make the 109E look consistently worse than a Spitfire gives the impression that you agree and endorse this opinion. My apologies if this is not the case, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and pointed out that the article was clearly biased. Even the level speeds given for the 109E are taken from either 1938 or 1939 variants and comapred with 1940 variants of the Spitfire.

I do not suggest that pilot accounts are discounted entirely, I pointed out that on that site we only see the ones where the Spitfire won. There are scores of combat reports from both sides where a Spitfire got shot down by a 109E. I would not use them as evidence that the 109E was clearly a superior machine because it wasn't.

Also the 109E that Mike Williams is fond of using for his performance figures was badly damaged in a crash landing and repaired by the French using parts recovered from other wrecked 109Es. The French had tested it and even damaged the engine by using the wrong oil and lubricants, prior to repairing it and giving it to the British who tested it almost one year later. He also neglects to point out that in the Sept 1940 test of that 109 it had no oxygen bottles so could not be tested at higher altitudes. It also had an earlier DB601A engine with the lower FTH. Just like the Merlin the DB601A was uprated and refined during its operational life, the 1940 version was more powerfull than a 1938/39 version.

Crying foul and stating the 109E is overmodelled compared to the CoD MkI Spitfire is not looking at the big picture to be honest. The CoD Spitfire Mk I, Mk Ia and both Hurricanes are seriously underperforming compared to BoB era variants. They are either getting speeds for a +6.25 lb boost variant or even worse. At most altitudes the 109E is getting speeds that don't even match the 1938/39 30 minute rating, never mind the 5 or even 1 minute rating of the BoB era version. Even the Fiat G.50 is getting much lower speeds than it did in real life. So all of these planes in CoD are getting speeds that match 1938/39 machines or even worse in most cases.

My apologies if any of this seems like I am attacking you or trying to be condescending. My aim is to highlight the fact that you need to get as many primary and varied sources as possible when comparing aircraft performance. Also take into account that even two identical aircraft can have vastly different performance due to quality of build and of pilot.