Why do Spitfires turn better than Hurricanes?!

[bugmenot]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

And anyway could really the Spit outturn the 109 at stall speed? (slats)

Pierre Clostermann, Spitfire pilot.
"I tried to fire on a '109' that I spotted in the chaos. Not possible, I couldn't get the correct angle. My plane juddered on the edge of a stall. It was comforting that the Spitfire turned better than the '109'! Certainly at high speed - but not at low speed."

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by bugmenot

Pierre Clostermann, Spitfire pilot.
"I tried to fire on a '109' that I spotted in the chaos. Not possible, I couldn't get the correct angle. My plane juddered on the edge of a stall. It was comforting that the Spitfire turned better than the '109'! Certainly at high speed - but not at low speed."

Cited in the "Great Show 2000".

I don't remember reading this in the original "Great show" published in the 1940's

~S!

[bugmenot]

Originally Posted by bugmenot

Pierre Clostermann, Spitfire pilot.
"I tried to fire on a '109' that I spotted in the chaos. Not possible, I couldn't get the correct angle. My plane juddered on the edge of a stall. It was comforting that the Spitfire turned better than the '109'! Certainly at high speed - but not at low speed."

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Cited in the "Great Show 2000".

I don't remember reading this in the original "Great show" published in the 1940's

~S!

.

[ICDP]

The quote is from the "Complete and Unabridged" version of the Big Show, published in 2004. Clostermann had many notes and diary entries that were not used in the original version.

See page 42, "My first big show over France". Clostermann was flying a Spitfire Mk IX against most likely 109Gs

Just to add affirmative information about what Viper said about the elliptical wing design of the Spit a little albeit interesting information on a footnote in aeronautical warfare history about a plane that didn't make it into mass production but would have produced a mess if it had been mass produced (you'll quickly will see why): the Heinkel He 112 that had been the most serious competitor against the Me109 during the evaluation trials in 1935 but which - as we know - was won by the 109.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_112

http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/he-112.php

Although the He 112 did have elliptical wings and wing-to-fuselage transition similar to the Spit its first prototypes had some problems with speed and the designers suspected some extra drag they didn't take into account during the initial design stages. They solved it in the course of pre series development but the contract has already gone to Messerschmitt. So obviously elliptical wings aren't the miracle some come to think.

Some nice pics and a short video clip on the 112 used as a testped:
http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/Flu...%20Profil.html

[lane]

Originally Posted by bugmenot

Pierre Clostermann, Spitfire pilot.
"I tried to fire on a '109' that I spotted in the chaos. Not possible, I couldn't get the correct angle. My plane juddered on the edge of a stall. It was comforting that the Spitfire turned better than the '109'! Certainly at high speed - but not at low speed."

Is that quote a fabrication? I’ve seen it on various aviation boards over the years and never once was it ever accompanied with a legitimate citation. Clostermann’s narrative in The Big Show seems to contradict that quote. Firstly it must also be said that Clostermann didn’t fly operationally during the Battle of Britain nor fly Spitfire I's in combat, so hoax or not, it doesn’t apply to Spitfire I/Me 109 E. His first operational sortie was with 341 Squadron in April 1943 flying Spitfire IXs.

Clostermann describing a Spitfire IX versus Me 109 G combat from 26th September, 1943:

"He knew that my Spitfire turned better and climbed better…" (See attachment)

Clostermann describing a Tempest V, Me 109 combat during 1945.
"I kept on reminding my pilots to keep their speed above 300 m.p.h., for “109’s” could turn better than we could at low speed…" (See attachment)

Something fishy…