12 barrel rolls...

[Pbs]

This is not real-life AI, this is AI-that-simulate-another-player. In online you will fights against humans, and they will do exactly same things. Also, there is bots in online battles, with same AI.

So, this AI perfectly prepares gamers to online battles, and perfectly replace real pilots in online. If you want more realistic AI for offline campaigns and missions, ask ANOTHER AI, but this one good enough.

[Breakfastmachine]

I certainly can't make my plane roll at the rate AI is able to. Neither can anyone online for that matter.

The 110's seem the worst. They do more tricks then what you'll see at a Red Bull air race!

[Blackdog_kt]

The rolls are weird, no question about that, but i don't really get how some people have trouble keeping up with the AI even with the tested FM discrepancies.

That being said, i fly with CEM and temp effects enabled so i have to use "by the book" power settings and invest some time to know what i'm doing when i exceed them, otherwise the engine will die.

Maybe this allows me to squeeze some extra performance out of the aircraft, i don't know, but i can certainly fire up the QMB and dogfight Hurricanes in a 110, run them down when they try to flee, force them to overshoot when i'm defensive, bounce them when they decide to RTB as their fuel and ammo gets low and generally stay alive, wear them out and get 2-4 kills on each such mission just fine. With the 109 i really have no problem at all and in a similar fashion i can score anywhere between 1-3 bomber kills on each intercept mission flying a Hurricane with the constant speed prop and get the two-stage prop Spits to accelerate and stay around 250mph during an entire dogfight. All that without even customized load-outs and convergence.

That being said i didn't just fire up a combat mission when i first got the sim, i usually try every aircraft in free flight first to see how much i can get away with, sort of a familiarization flight if you wish.

I don't know how much more or less realistic our FMs are compared to IL2, i'm not an expert, i'm just saying that if you take the time to learn how engines and props work you can certainly squeeze a lot of the seemingly missing performance out of your aircraft, no matter which one it is.

I have a feeling that part of the problem is the FMs needing some fine-tuning (the auto-mixture bug for example) but a big part is also that most of us don't know half of what we should be doing to really get top performance from our rides. There's so much complexity involved here that half of the times i thought something was a bug i ended up discovering it's actually a realistic feature after some googling and reading up on the issue.

I think that what this sim needs first and foremost is just two things: further performance optimizations and an amended documentation. If we have playable frame rates and know where we stand in regards to aircraft behavior on certain matters, it will be a much smoother ride from there on out and much easier to identify what needs fixing by the devs and what needs reading some documentation on our part.

[ICDP]

Originally Posted by Pbs

This is not real-life AI, this is AI-that-simulate-another-player. In online you will fights against humans, and they will do exactly same things. Also, there is bots in online battles, with same AI.

So, this AI perfectly prepares gamers to online battles, and perfectly replace real pilots in online. If you want more realistic AI for offline campaigns and missions, ask ANOTHER AI, but this one good enough.

What total and utter bullshit!

AI is NOT solely to train people before they go online. It is to give those who have no interest in going online a way to play SP missions that are believable. When the AI bombers start barrel rolling it makes offliners wince and go play other sims.

The AI needs fixed, it's that simple. Oh and online players are not the epitomy of a simmer, by far the majority play offline. Or maybe you think the handfull of people who play online are a majority? If it is then the total sales of CoD must be in the hundreds.

Even Oleg said onliners are only 5% of total sales.

[reflected]

Agreed, total BS.
The majority of players play offline. they need AI planes to fight against. If you make a 109 do 12 consecutive rolls at the rate of an F16 it certainly is hard to shoott down, but do you seriously think that is the point?! I'll make an FPS game where your targets do backflips and run at 60 mph while they vibrate in rainbow colors. Hard to shoot down? yes. Fun? no. Realistic (the point of a simulator, you know)? hell no.

And what a pathetic excuse: "it's too hard to make an AI that is challenging while subject to the same FM and physics." LOL....LOL!
Man, fire up good old BoB2 WoV and then we can talk.

[CharveL]

Originally Posted by reflected

And what a pathetic excuse: "it's too hard to make an AI that is challenging while subject to the same FM and physics." LOL....LOL!
Man, fire up good old BoB2 WoV and then we can talk.

Ok shhhhh, it's all gonna be ok...settle...settle...

You just killed your point by bringing up BoB2:WoV but I get what you're saying. We all know the AI needs improvement (well, most of us) but it's not simply a matter of giving every single AI the same FM as the player and letting them go.

I'm starting to suspect that amongst their other feature implementation issues with the rushed release, that there is only one AI routine for all the planes until they can plug the numbers in for each type. Just a bit of a guess though it makes some sense why bombers will try to evade the same way as a 109. This also means a lot of tweaking for individual planes.

Bottom line though is, out of necessity, they have to make a simpler, canned FM for AI unless you just want to have only one or two other planes in the air. It's basically a shortcut that, when tweaked properly, will act more like the real plane should once they fix them.

[raaaid]

i love the ai of this game

in fact ill have a hard time telling ai from human online

yeah i want retard ai which cant defend itself and kill it time after time with no risk

man give ai a break maybe the ai pilots got even some feelings programmed and they want to shoot you some time and not being shot down time after time

edit:

oh i got shot down online by bombers doing circles

[David198502]

in my opinion AI definetely needs a change.i fly the bf only now, and even beaufighters outroll me.thats strange and annoying.i also dont like the fact that spits and hurris fly with landingflaps doing low speed high siccors,while i have to fight not to stall.then a second later they outrun me.its hard to shoot ai.thats the only plus.(its a challenge)but its not realistic.

[jimbop]

Originally Posted by CharveL

Ok shhhhh, it's all gonna be ok...settle...settle...

You just killed your point by bringing up BoB2:WoV but I get what you're saying. We all know the AI needs improvement (well, most of us) but it's not simply a matter of giving every single AI the same FM as the player and letting them go.

Had to lol at this... He killed his point by pointing out that an 'inferior' sim does something better than the 'gold standard'? Nice elitist attitude... CoD won't be the gold standard until stuff like this is sorted out. I agree that canned AI is likely necessary but wish it would be a little more plausible.