Spitfire makes only 300 mph?

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

lol, would have to seriously disagree with this, one of them yes but both is stupid imo, since the mkI was the mainstay of the battle and theres so much evidence of lots (note not all) of them on 100 octane fuel, which even you have to admit.

You are right (posting from an iPhone was pain.. ). There should be be a 2-pitch version, and a CSP with armor, both 87 octane. The Mk. II could then be used as a stand in for Mk. Is with 100 octane as well. Of course a third Mark I with 100 octane and CSP would be great as well, but IMHO redundant as its the same thing really as the current Mk. II performance wise.

I was just testing one Mk I (dunno Mk I or Mk Ia so I am not sure, but evidently at least one of them is with 2 pitch screws), as I was curious about how the CSP works in COD.

Il-2 was a serious disappointban the way it modelled CSP. Still is.. you don't seem to select RPM with it, as you should, you select "relative to maximum allowed rpm for given boost".

Speaking of which, "Mk Ia" is also a bit weird. AFAIK there was no such actual designation, it was Mk I. Mk IA is an ex post facto "designation", maybe born in post-war literature, like "Erla G-10". Hell some books even state the "Mk. I" was with four guns only..

[fruitbat]

disagree with the mkII and mkI being the same performance.

mkI is marginally faster down low, mkII quicker up high, and more importantly, a higher service ceiling, which put them 3000ft above the 109's, at least according to one German fighter pilots book i've read (Spitfire on my tail). In October he described it 'as regular as the German railway' for spits to be waiting for them well above there service ceiling.

figures i have list service ceiling for mkII as 37,600ft (P7280), vs 34,700ft for mkI (N3171), figures i have for E3 34,550ft.

Thats why it makes much more sense to me to have one spit MkI at 9lbs, one at 12lbs and the spit MkII at 12lbs, along with an E1 and E4 of course. Then we can actually start having a Battle of Britain.

agree re the mkIa thing, its just plain weird!

[Kwiatek]

The most common Spitfire MK1-MK2 version should be:

Spit MK1 Merlin III ( pre BOB version) - 2 stage DH prop pitch, +6 1/2 lbs (87 octan fuel), no armoured windshield and no pilos armour ( the fastest SPit Mk1 at FTH but worse climb rate )

Spit MK1 Merlin III ( BOB version -could be MK1A) - CSP DH , +12 lbs ( 100 Octan), armoured windshield ( the fastest Spit MK1 at low level, good climb rate)

Spit MK2 Merlin XII - CSP Rotol, +12 lbs ( 100 Octan), armoured windshield and pilot armour)



Similar should be with Hurricanes:

Hurricane MK1 ( early) - 2 stage DH prop, +6 1/2 lbs ( 87 octan fuel)

Hurricane MK1 ( late) - CSP DH2, +12 lbs ( 100 Octan), armoured windshield ( pilot armour)

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

The most common Spitfire MK1-MK2 version should be:

Spit MK1 Merlin III ( pre BOB version) - 2 stage DH prop pitch, +6 1/2 lbs (87 octan fuel), no armoured windshield and no pilos armour ( the fastest SPit Mk1 at FTH but worse climb rate )

Spit MK1 Merlin III ( BOB version -could be MK1A) - CSP DH , +12 lbs ( 100 Octan), armoured windshield ( the fastest Spit MK1 at low level, good climb rate)

Spit MK2 Merlin XII - CSP Rotol, +12 lbs ( 100 Octan), armoured windshield and pilot armour)



Similar should be with Hurricanes:

Hurricane MK1 ( early) - 2 stage DH prop, +6 1/2 lbs ( 87 octan fuel)

Hurricane MK1 ( late) - CSP DH2, +12 lbs ( 100 Octan), armoured windshield ( pilot armour)

sounds perfect.

[reflected]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

sounds perfect.

+1

[lane]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

The most common Spitfire MK1-MK2 version should be:

Spit MK1 Merlin III ( pre BOB version) - 2 stage DH prop pitch, +6 1/2 lbs (87 octan fuel), no armoured windshield and no pilos armour ( the fastest SPit Mk1 at FTH but worse climb rate )

Spit MK1 Merlin III ( BOB version -could be MK1A) - CSP DH , +12 lbs ( 100 Octan), armoured windshield ( the fastest Spit MK1 at low level, good climb rate)

Spit MK2 Merlin XII - CSP Rotol, +12 lbs ( 100 Octan), armoured windshield and pilot armour)

Similar should be with Hurricanes:

Hurricane MK1 ( early) - 2 stage DH prop, +6 1/2 lbs ( 87 octan fuel)

Hurricane MK1 ( late) - CSP DH2, +12 lbs ( 100 Octan), armoured windshield ( pilot armour)

+1
(Although I don't really see much point in the 87 octane set up except maybe for Hurricanes in France during the phoney war period).

[winny]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

You are right (posting from an iPhone was pain.. ). There should be be a 2-pitch version, and a CSP with armor, both 87 octane. The Mk. II could then be used as a stand in for Mk. Is with 100 octane as well. Of course a third Mark I with 100 octane and CSP would be great as well, but IMHO redundant as its the same thing really as the current Mk. II performance wise.

I was just testing one Mk I (dunno Mk I or Mk Ia so I am not sure, but evidently at least one of them is with 2 pitch screws), as I was curious about how the CSP works in COD.

Il-2 was a serious disappointban the way it modelled CSP. Still is.. you don't seem to select RPM with it, as you should, you select "relative to maximum allowed rpm for given boost".

Speaking of which, "Mk Ia" is also a bit weird. AFAIK there was no such actual designation, it was Mk I. Mk IA is an ex post facto "designation", maybe born in post-war literature, like "Erla G-10". Hell some books even state the "Mk. I" was with four guns only..

All 8 gun RAF fighters were retrospectivley given the A suffix sometime in late 1940. Up till then they were just Mk 1s.

I'm wondering if the 'Early' Mk1 is just exactly that, early (Pre June '40). More of a Battle of France Spitfire, 2 speed De Hav and 87 octane. That would make more sense.

Here's an interesting pont. The first Modified (ie the cannons worked) Mk IB into action in the BoB was R6889, 19 Sqn . It was, to quote Spitfire, The History "Not an outstanding sucess, it was underpowered, even with the Merlin III and had to be flown at maximum power just to keep up with the browning armed Spitfires"

[Deadstick]

Hahaha, more Spitfans complaining because it is not über like in IL 2.

Actually, even though I mainly fly Blue, I agree. I found this in a nother thread :

Of course, the Spit I's in the game, both the standard and Ia are completely porked. Both have the dual speed props, which is not accurate. 100% of the Spit I's with De Havilland dual speed props were converted to De Havilland constant speed props, most by the end of the first week of July, the rest by the end of August. Plus all new models coming out of the factory had Rotol constant speed props factory installed.

I'm not saying it proves they are not modelled correctly, but if they have not even got the props right, what else is wrong?

[ICDP]

Well after some more testing of the Mk IIa I must say it is modelled perfectly on a real +12 lbs boost Spitfire Mk IIa for top speeds.

These numbers are taken at full CEM and engine overheat enabled. *Warning* Disabling CEM or overheat results in a Spitfire Mk IIa capable of 390MPH. Do not use CEM or overheat OFF for speed testing.



As can be seen the Mk IIa speeds are spot on when compared to a +12 lbs boost Spitfire Mk Ia. The speeds are around 20-25mph faster than the 9 Lbs boost Mk II a speeds which would put them about right for 12 lbs boost. Also at the full throttle height of around 18,000 ft the boost there should be no speed difference between 9 lbs or 12 lbs boost.

The Mk IIa in CoD (at least in speed for altitude) is definately a 12 lbs boost version. The guage in CoD is broken. I will add climb tests later.

Can you tell me how I get the 317 at SL in COD with CEM? My procedure is:
All out (max rpm, max boost with boost cut out) then trim aircraft. Optimize rpm (slightly lower seems to improve speed), let it settle, retrim aircraft, then close radiator just as much to stay at water temperature still acceptable (120°C). Retrim if necessary.

I only get 300 mph at sea level. And this with several trials.