Freetrack interface use in IL-2:CoD

[Strike]

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM

Have EVERYTHING with headtracking, because is about OPTIONS!

If you two don't understand that, sorry. I like to have OPTION in my life, FREE CHOICES...

I don't want to buy a TiR. And someone maybe don't want to jump in front of a train. Options, choices...

And the "Strike" guy voted NO for support for FT. They don't understand that people MAYBE can make their own choices... I'm not surprised...

Ok analyzing...

"Have EVERYTHING with headtracking, because is about OPTIONS!"

Say what now? What/who HAS* everything with headtracking??? and the reason is about OPTIONS!"? nothing here makes sense!

next sentance:

"If you two don't understand that, sorry. I like to have OPTION in my life, FREE CHOICES..."

You are right, I don't understand a word of you, apology accepted! You like options? Well so do I, FREE CHOICES! is a part of living in a democratic society! This isn't North Korea (poor guys are probably not getting CoD). On the free choices topic, I like to choose between Mars and Snickers, I won't however, accept a free chocolate from a stranger, would you eat that?

Okay, further on:

"I don't want to buy a TiR. And someone maybe don't want to jump in front of a train. Options, choices..."

You are comparing buying track IR to commiting suicide. I can understand why you don't want to buy a track IR then. You should go look at www.naturalpoint.com and read the terms and restrictions etc. There is nothing there saying that if you purchase this product, you have to kill yourself. I choose Track IR, I am alive. (And happy with the product!)

And finally:

"And the "Strike" guy voted NO for support for FT. They don't understand that people MAYBE can make their own choices... I'm not surprised."

You are right, I voted no because I believe that Naturalpoint needs people to buy their products so that they can continue to Cooperate with the simulator developers and "tailor" the 6DOF experience together. Freetrack (to my knowledge) is a free "hack" that tries to simulate the inputs of "Track IR" by using your average webcam. I believe that freetrack is not accurate enough to produce the 6DOF experience we get with TrackIR and so I see no reason for game developers to use their time to add support for freetrack! TrackIR works GREAT with games that support this, but as far as goes for freetrack, I think it is better that the freetrack guys write their own stuff for IL-2: CoD and take responsability to make it compatible, rather than putting the work on Oleg. Just my opinion..

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by Strike

You are right, I voted no because I believe that Naturalpoint needs people to buy their products so that they can continue to Cooperate with the simulator developers and "tailor" the 6DOF experience together. Freetrack (to my knowledge) is a free "hack" that tries to simulate the inputs of "Track IR" by using your average webcam. I believe that freetrack is not accurate enough to produce the 6DOF experience we get with TrackIR and so I see no reason for game developers to use their time to add support for freetrack! TrackIR works GREAT with games that support this, but as far as goes for freetrack, I think it is better that the freetrack guys write their own stuff for IL-2: CoD and take responsability to make it compatible, rather than putting the work on Oleg. Just my opinion..

I can see now that you are a complete ignorant about the subject. Why do you vote?

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM

I can see now that you are a complete ignorant about the subject. Why do you vote?

what? ... you don't want people to vote now?

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

what? ... you don't want people to vote now?

I want thet people try to learn about the subject BEFORE vote... But I see now that some of the less than 20% of people that vote against FT support know nothing about the subject.

Very intersting...

[vicinity]

Originally Posted by Strike

Freetrack (to my knowledge) is a free "hack" that tries to simulate the inputs of "Track IR" by using your average webcam. I believe that freetrack is not accurate enough to produce the 6DOF experience we get with TrackIR and so I see no reason for game developers to use their time to add support for freetrack! TrackIR works GREAT with games that support this, but as far as goes for freetrack, I think it is better that the freetrack guys write their own stuff for IL-2: CoD and take responsability to make it compatible, rather than putting the work on Oleg. Just my opinion..

All freetrack does with older games that don't have the encrypted NP api is input values into the game the same way as TrackIR. It does the exact same thing as a generic joystick the only difference being that the HT interface was orginally designed for TrackIR (as it was the only HT device at the time). This imo is not so much a hack but falls under fair usage as there is no other way to interface with the headtracking in these older games.

Even if you think the previous implementation was a 'hack' developers are free to use the freetrack api - This way is definately NOT a hack as if it were no other developer would have implemented it.

I would like to know if you have used freetrack? If you have you may have had bad experiences but with the right setup I can assure you that it is quite impressive and i've had no issues with the quality of the setup (using wii remote at 100fps and a clip I spent a good amount of time perfecting).

The devs do not need to spend any considerable amount of time to implement freetrack as headtracking is already set up, all they need to do is allow access to a few bits of data.

As said before in this thread, the guys that write freetrack don't have to do anything. Freetrack is available for anyone to implement it, everything is there and all it needs is for devs to accept data from it, the program does the rest. It is for us, the FT users or community to try and convince the developers that there is enough demand for it to be worth their time (and it really wouldn't take a lot of time).

[Strike]

Originally Posted by vicinity

I would like to know if you have used freetrack? If you have you may have had bad experiences but with the right setup I can assure you that it is quite impressive and i've had no issues with the quality of the setup (using wii remote at 100fps and a clip I spent a good amount of time perfecting)

Okay, well I have to be honest I have no experience with freetrack, except by reading about how to set it all up and seeing a few youtube vids that, to me, prove it can be quite glitchy. If everybody uses as much time as you to perfect it I can understand you might enjoy it alot! But again, how much did that wiimote cost you? Here it's about half the price of track IR complete setup if you want the nun-chuck. However as interesting as it sounds, one might start speculating if you can use the Kinect camera soon, and drop the IR/reflective parts all together, seeing that microsoft is probably going to drop a SDK for Kinect in the near future. Imagine that, free tracking with ONLY a camera Oh and have you ever tried Track IR? One of its best pros have to be that it's very simple to set up

Originally Posted by vicinity

As said before in this thread, the guys that write freetrack don't have to do anything. Freetrack is available for anyone to implement it, everything is there and all it needs is for devs to accept data from it, the program does the rest. It is for us, the FT users or community to try and convince the developers that there is enough demand for it to be worth their time (and it really wouldn't take a lot of time).

Well, I'm sure Oleg and team are aware of the options to tracking devices, but seeing that the entire commercial world (to my knowledge) has opted for Track IR, I don't see why they would consider adding more options for the release! But I wouldn't worry if I were you guys, there has to be a way to just "emulate" track IR input for CoD, regardless of official support. If you ask me wether to add a better pilot animation, or better effect or a vital bugfix for the first patch, or add freetrack support, I think even freetrack users would opt for the game fixes.

[vicinity]

Originally Posted by Strike

Okay, well I have to be honest I have no experience with freetrack, except by reading about how to set it all up and seeing a few youtube vids that, to me, prove it can be quite glitchy. If everybody uses as much time as you to perfect it I can understand you might enjoy it alot! But again, how much did that wiimote cost you? Here it's about half the price of track IR complete setup if you want the nun-chuck. However as interesting as it sounds, one might start speculating if you can use the Kinect camera soon, and drop the IR/reflective parts all together, seeing that microsoft is probably going to drop a SDK for Kinect in the near future. Imagine that, free tracking with ONLY a camera Oh and have you ever tried Track IR? One of its best pros have to be that it's very simple to set up .

Well luckily enough I happened to already have a Wii so i didn't have to buy that sperately. Still if I were to compare the cost of my FT setup vs even TIR4 then the FT setup would be 1/4 of the price.

No, I have not tired trackIR though I do someday intend to when I can afford to buy it. However I feel all these comparisons are pointless - I would expect trackIR to work better than a home solution but that doesn't mean I think developers should favour one over the other.

Originally Posted by Strike

Well, I'm sure Oleg and team are aware of the options to tracking devices, but seeing that the entire commercial world (to my knowledge) has opted for Track IR, I don't see why they would consider adding more options for the release! But I wouldn't worry if I were you guys, there has to be a way to just "emulate" track IR input for CoD, regardless of official support. If you ask me wether to add a better pilot animation, or better effect or a vital bugfix for the first patch, or add freetrack support, I think even freetrack users would opt for the game fixes.

Ideally I would like a standard interface for headtracking as it would save developers time, allow for real consumer choice, stop workarounds or hacks that have appeared since NP encrypted the API and stop the pointless TIR vs FT threads popping up all the time.

Best of all I think headtracking would be supported in more games because there would be more people in support of headtracking asking developers to implement.

I think i'm going to stop now for good, because even i'm starting to repeat myself.

EDIT: WR, i'm not even going to bother responding - same replies from you as the whole way through the thread. "it's a hack, it's a hack, it's a hack" is not an argument. "Prove it's not a hack" is also not an argument as the onus would be for you to prove that it is. Our opinion on this matter differs and it would be pointless for either of us to continue.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by vicinity

Ideally I would like a standard interface for headtracking as it would save developers time, allow for real consumer choice,

consensus was reached very early on in the discussion about alternative forms of headtracking.

Originally Posted by vicinity

stop workarounds or hacks that have appeared since NP encrypted the API and stop the pointless TIR vs FT threads popping up all the time.

that would be nice and hopefully, notwithstanding the way FT went about it, the consensus becomes adopted.

[Wolf_Rider]

[QUOTE=vicinity;228669]

All freetrack does with older games that don't have the encrypted NP api is input values into the game the same way as TrackIR.

[QUOTE=vicinity;228669]


and that was the beginning of the problems... Ft made use of NP property

Originally Posted by vicinity

It does the exact same thing as a generic joystick

nooo, it doesn't. MS allows the use of "generic joysticks, much the same as mice and keyboards.

Originally Posted by vicinity

the only difference being that the HT interface was orginally designed for TrackIR (as it was the only HT device at the time).

the HT interface is NP property

Originally Posted by vicinity

This imo is not so much a hack but falls under fair usage as there is no other way to interface with the headtracking in these older games.

it is a hack and not "free use" (see Berne convention) "Free use" is allowed when the source isn't financially affected.

Originally Posted by vicinity

Even if you think the previous implementation was a 'hack' developers are free to use the freetrack api -

No problem there, except FT is a hack tool - which is the problem.

Originally Posted by vicinity

This way is definately NOT a hack as if it were no other developer would have implemented it.

so FT went the route of hacking NP


[QUOTE=vicinity;228669]

The devs do not need to spend any considerable amount of time to implement freetrack as headtracking is already set up, all they need to do is allow access to a few bits of data.

[/QUOTE}


Np is already set up, which FT makes use of

Originally Posted by vicinity

As said before in this thread, the guys that write freetrack don't have to do anything. Freetrack is available for anyone to implement it, everything is there and all it needs is for devs to accept data from it, the program does the rest. It is for us, the FT users or community to try and convince the developers that there is enough demand for it to be worth their time (and it really wouldn't take a lot of time).

Then there should be no problem with the FT developer/s to present a clean product, which can't hack into NP software, eh?

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Np is already set up, which FT makes use of

GIGANTIC lie ever.

Proof it! That's the point:

- NP pretends that they "own" HT solution for games, simply as that!

Freetracks does UNIQUE calcutations, uses a vast array of cameras, have A LOT of tweak tools and provide a lot of output options!

NP dislikes a lot Freetrack becuse it's a BETTER software than all NP does so far. That's because they request FT to remove support for NP hardware. And that's why NP keep the broken record of "reverse engineering", as if nobody can do the math behind provide 6DoF HT with some 2D image as source. Pathetic.

Stop the lies, loser! Be a man!