Guncam footage - why aren't those gunners doing anything?

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Fergal69

I found the B17 getting shoot at by the ME110 a sad & poignant piece of film.

If there were crew in there, you are watching what could be their last moments, especially the tail gunner as that got a fair pounding.

Yes nature can be very sad some times, hence the big red X on the right top of your screen.

The material was useful though for the Luftwaffe, finding weak spots in the aircraft, improving of accuracy for next sortie and more.

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by Sven

Yes nature can be very sad some times, hence the big red X on the right top of your screen.

The material was useful though for the Luftwaffe, finding weak spots in the aircraft, improving of accuracy for next sortie and more.

I'm curious what the hell war has to do with nature, and why a man has to be ridiculed for having feelings? It seems being a man at all has gone out of style.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by BadAim

I'm curious what the hell war has to do with nature, and why a man has to be ridiculed for having feelings? It seems being a man at all has gone out of style.

I didn't want to redicule anyone, but you have a choise you know to look the other way when you face sad events in history. Some of us do appreciate this all is available, and not poignant.
As far as I know BadAim, there's no alien life present here, so everything has to be nature, you'll see likewise events on Animal Planet, where the hunter hunts for the weakest prey and eats it, even though the prey could hardly resist himself or protect itself.

[GnigruH]

you'll see likewise events on Animal Planet, where the hunter hunts for the weakest prey and eats it, even though the prey could hardly resist himself or protect itself

Nice theory, its only flaw is that humans can survive without killing other humans.
So comparing war to what you can see on Animal Planet is quite inappropriate imo.

Back on topic - yes, there are some popular gun cam footages on YouTube and, as you can figure out reading comments below them, throughout the years various ppl asked the same question: why those gunners don't shoot back?
Well, the answer is rather simple - they are dead or they're not there.

Gun footage in which the enemy fires back isn't usually kept.
If you show rookies image of the enemy firing back then there aren't as likely to try such effective (yet somewhat suicidal) approaches on the bomber's six.

True.
I might add that footage from fighters which were shot down during unsuccessful attacks is also discarded when the burning wreck hits the ground.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by GnigruH

Nice theory, its only flaw is that humans can survive without killing other humans.
So comparing war to what you can see on Animal Planet is quite inappropriate imo.

All right I"ll try that that next time on a full real server, I just have the feeling that my opponent will kill me when he gets a chance. I believe it was no different in any real war. I'll make this my final point, everybody has different feelings about these concerns, no point in endlessly exchanging opinions.

[TinyTim]

One reason - basic probability theory.

It's much more unlikely to see a guncam from a fighter, parked at close range on a dead 6 of an american heavy bomber with all defensive guns blazing at him simply because the probability of the fighter surviving such an encounter and bringing back the footage is much lower.

Besides, yeah, its sad watching these planes getting shot to pieces - what a horrible moments for the crew, which was, correct me if I'm wrong, only trying to drop humanitarian aid to the civilians below. Sorry, but I find it very hard to find any compassion for any soldier in WW2 which was involved in killing civilians, regardless of the side they fought on and of the side of targetted civilians.

[GnigruH]

Well, I could say that those gunners weren't killing any civilians. The bombardier was. This kind of arguing leads to nowhere.

[BadAim]

How fooking useless an argument can you get, If you have compassion on one person, you must be incompassionate about another!

Is there nothing but fools out there?

I feel the same about the soldiers as the civilians, am I a villain?

[xnomad]

The B-17 guns could have all been out of ammo.

The guns on the B-17 usually had a minutes worth of ammunition:
http://www.b17.org/history/specs.asp

Imagine flying all the way to Schweinfurt and back being harrassed by fighters most of the way. There's a very good chance you are going to run out of ammo especially if you lose contact with the formation and you are on your own. The footage does show that this bomber is alone.

50 cal ammo weighs a lot so you can't take that much with you.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

The Germans did not employ gun cameras as standard equipment on their aircraft, unlike the British and Americans.

These films were shot for the instruction of new German pilots, not as records to allow kills to be confirmed or not.

So obviously the films which best illustrate a successful method to attack B-17's are the ones which didn't end up on the cutting room floor.