But we can still live with it, I guess…

[Blackdog_kt]

While i share your complaints about how distribution companies handle game releases nowadays, i think we have to be a bit honest with how the community at large operates as well.

I would probably have no problem waiting an extra 6 months to get a fully polished product and by the sound of it, it seems you share this opinion.
However, there's a large part of the community who's been chomping at the bit, going "is it ready yet?" and "how much longer?" all along the way.

I too dislike incomplete games but i know there is no such thing as a 100% complete and realistic simulator. The thing is, what happened with CoD was a choice of "scaled down release now" instead of "full fledged content half a year later".

I have no problem either way, because i can weigh pros and cons and if the "completeness index" is to my liking i can purchase, if not i can wait until more things are added (which is exactly what you describe, it's a perfectly valid outlook on things).

The stirring up usually comes from members of the community who on one hand want the game to ship early, but on the other hand don't realize that this will put a dent in things with regards to how complete it will be. I'm not referring to you here, it's obvious you realize this counter-balancing going on behind the scenes and i would expect no less from a member of the industry.

What i'm trying to say is that just like the features that make it into the release version are a compromise between time, cost, feasibility and hardware requirements, how to deal with the community and balance the desires, wishes and sometimes downright demands between different groups of fans with diverging agendas and priorities is also a tough balancing act

[brando]

To be honest I'm having difficulty in establishing how a "dynamic campaign" would work, given the subject of the release; i.e. the Battle of Britain.

How could it go?
1) Volunteer for fighters, go through training, hang about at an army barracks in Middlesborough for 6 months, and then get a posting into Bomber Command?
2) All the above except you get posted to a fighter squadron. On your second flight you get bounced by Adolf Galland and crash in flames. Spitfire girl stands on the cliffs at Dover and weeps...or
2b) You get posted to a Defiant squadron....

3) You last through a few missions and get promoted to Flight leader. After your twentieth flight you get bounced.......&c
3b) or you fly into a barrage balloon cable ....
3c) or your fuel ignites and you have to spend six months in hospital having your face reconstructed. Spitfire girl takes one look at you and marries your best friend. Penalty is 50 heartbreak points and a posting to a training unit....or

4) You are one of the lucky ones who lasts through the whole campaign. You are awarded a DFC for which you attend Buckingham Palace and meet the King and Queen. Receive a hundred Honour points and a MkV Spit. You marry Spitfire girl and get shot down on your first mission over Amiens.....You spend the rest of the war in various Stalags. Spitfire girl gets bored and falls for a Mustang pilot....or

5)Your skill at jerking a joystick gets you posted to an elite squadron of supercharged Spits Your next mission takes you into a railway tunnel where you must skip a 500lb bomb into the path of Goering's train and escape vertically up a ventilation shaft. In the course of doing this you create the first clipped-wing Spit and gain 500 Inventor points....... on your return you get totally pissed on warm beer and find yourself unable to deliver when Spitfire girl offers her all....

6) Your final promotion. You are now Keith Park. You get to wear the white overalls and a tin hat and your flying is restricted to visiting 11 Group's bases in your personal Hurricane to encourage the Few. The rest of your time is spent in the Control room at Uxbridge. You get to meet Churchill and spend several hours arguing with Trafford Leigh-Mallory. Winning the campaign results in your being transferred to a Training command.

Or, you just get in your plane and do what the brass tell you to do. The most "dynamic" thing you can do is fly straight (but never for more than 30 seconds in a combat zone!), stay in formation, and either shoot down bombers (Hurricane pilot) or fighters (Spitfire pilot). Sometimes you may succeed, other times you may spend twenty minutes at 18,000 feet and never see a thing. You will count yourself lucky if your wings stay on as you dive back towards Blighty with a 109 on your tail. And pat yourself on the back when you find your way back to a field in bad weather conditions, even though you never found the single raider that you were scrambled to locate.

I hope you can excuse my sarcasm which is only meant in fun - and accept that there really isn't much room for manoeuvre campaign-wise. Fly and fight and hope to get yourself and your wingmen home. Keep on doing it until the Axis decide to quit their daylight bombing. Survive or die. That's what is being simulated here.

[Majo]

I still think that the greatest dynamic campaign is to fly and fight online.

You might still try to fly with a specific purpose when you fly online in an open server, but you never know what you are going to find out there. Even in fixed competition scenarios you never know.

The expert, the unbeatable team, lucky shots, the re-incarnation of the super-nerd, the cheater, life (virtual) in all her brightness…

Too bad some people do not like it or simply just cannot make it or take it.

My guess, again, is that online gaming is now, and certainly will be, a great resource to make money in the long term for a game. It is a steady way to economically support the future development of the sim. Of course, I am not talking about the numbers of the mega-stars of the internet game-play like Call of Duty (not CoD any more…) but still a good way to face a long term project. This might not be the case, but it could be that the limited resources of the team (Oleg’s team) have been focused in online gaming as a priority.

One of “The core basics” of il2 is the online playability. A significant portion of the community likes that and I really hope they want us to be happy.

Anyway, more early than later, I am quite sure that a dynamic campaign will be available. As sure as I am that someday the Focke Wulf will roar & rule over the Channel.

Salutes.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by brando

To be honest I'm having difficulty in establishing how a "dynamic campaign" would work, given the subject of the release; i.e. the Battle of Britain.

How could it go?
1) Volunteer for fighters, go through training, hang about at an army barracks in Middlesborough for 6 months, and then get a posting into Bomber Command?
2) All the above except you get posted to a fighter squadron. On your second flight you get bounced by Adolf Galland and crash in flames. Spitfire girl stands on the cliffs at Dover and weeps...or
2b) You get posted to a Defiant squadron....

3) You last through a few missions and get promoted to Flight leader. After your twentieth flight you get bounced.......&c
3b) or you fly into a barrage balloon cable ....
3c) or your fuel ignites and you have to spend six months in hospital having your face reconstructed. Spitfire girl takes one look at you and marries your best friend. Penalty is 50 heartbreak points and a posting to a training unit....or

4) You are one of the lucky ones who lasts through the whole campaign. You are awarded a DFC for which you attend Buckingham Palace and meet the King and Queen. Receive a hundred Honour points and a MkV Spit. You marry Spitfire girl and get shot down on your first mission over Amiens.....You spend the rest of the war in various Stalags. Spitfire girl gets bored and falls for a Mustang pilot....or

5)Your skill at jerking a joystick gets you posted to an elite squadron of supercharged Spits Your next mission takes you into a railway tunnel where you must skip a 500lb bomb into the path of Goering's train and escape vertically up a ventilation shaft. In the course of doing this you create the first clipped-wing Spit and gain 500 Inventor points....... on your return you get totally pissed on warm beer and find yourself unable to deliver when Spitfire girl offers her all....

6) Your final promotion. You are now Keith Park. You get to wear the white overalls and a tin hat and your flying is restricted to visiting 11 Group's bases in your personal Hurricane to encourage the Few. The rest of your time is spent in the Control room at Uxbridge. You get to meet Churchill and spend several hours arguing with Trafford Leigh-Mallory. Winning the campaign results in your being transferred to a Training command.

Or, you just get in your plane and do what the brass tell you to do. The most "dynamic" thing you can do is fly straight (but never for more than 30 seconds in a combat zone!), stay in formation, and either shoot down bombers (Hurricane pilot) or fighters (Spitfire pilot). Sometimes you may succeed, other times you may spend twenty minutes at 18,000 feet and never see a thing. You will count yourself lucky if your wings stay on as you dive back towards Blighty with a 109 on your tail. And pat yourself on the back when you find your way back to a field in bad weather conditions, even though you never found the single raider that you were scrambled to locate.

I hope you can excuse my sarcasm which is only meant in fun - and accept that there really isn't much room for manoeuvre campaign-wise. Fly and fight and hope to get yourself and your wingmen home. Keep on doing it until the Axis decide to quit their daylight bombing. Survive or die. That's what is being simulated here.

Best post ever!!

I think that a static campaign will work well since the game is centered around the battle of britain..

On the other hand, if they make a sequel of a more "generic" conflict, like the MTO or PTO, you're not bound to simulate exact historical happenings and such...

When you announce that the game is to be centered around the BoB, people expect the Adlertag to happen at the exact date.. With a dynamic campaign, some of the historic events might've not happened at all (if the campaign is fully dynamic) ..

My 0.02 cents

[The Kraken]

Well there have been dynamic campaigns released for BoB flight sims, most noteworthy probably the one in Rowan's BoB / Wings of Victory. Not the biggest fan of it myself but it does manage to be dynamic without being ridiculously unrealistic. So yes it's possible, although I understand the reasons why there's no such campaign in CoD.

[Sauf]

"spend several hours arguing with Trafford Leigh-Mallory"

Was Trafford Leigh-Mallory the original Spitfire whiner?

"5)Your skill at jerking a joystick gets you posted to an elite squadron of supercharged Spits Your next mission takes you into a railway tunnel where you must skip a 500lb bomb into the path of Goering's train and escape vertically up a ventilation shaft. In the course of doing this you create the first clipped-wing Spit and gain 500 Inventor points....... on your return you get totally pissed on warm beer and find yourself unable to deliver when Spitfire girl offers her all...."

lol, very humorous This forum could use a bit more lightheartedness atm

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Sauf

"spend several hours arguing with Trafford Leigh-Mallory"

Was Trafford Leigh-Mallory the original Spitfire whiner?

"5)Your skill at jerking a joystick gets you posted to an elite squadron of supercharged Spits Your next mission takes you into a railway tunnel where you must skip a 500lb bomb into the path of Goering's train and escape vertically up a ventilation shaft. In the course of doing this you create the first clipped-wing Spit and gain 500 Inventor points....... on your return you get totally pissed on warm beer and find yourself unable to deliver when Spitfire girl offers her all...."

lol, very humorous This forum could use a bit more lightheartedness atm

Unfortunately its been confirmed we cannot actually fly through the railway tunnels with this release so the Goering mission will have to wait till a later patch.

[ElAurens]

Then there is always the issue of the possibility of Goering himself fitting in a railway tunnel...

[White Owl]

Wow. Looks like Blackdog has been putting some thought into this for a while. Great post.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Then there is always the issue of the possibility of Goering himself fitting in a railway tunnel...

Awesome

His penchant for the dolce vita is so prevalent that he's modeled like this in many games. One of my friends plays the hearts of iron 3 strategy game where you can apparently assign historical figures certain postings in combat units, so he placed Goering to lead a CAS wing (i think that's how the game calls the stuka units). He was telling me yesterday "whenever i rotate the fat b*stard out of the front lines but don't specify exactly where he should go, he always ends up in Paris"